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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 970907" data-attributes="member: 3146">Here are Mike Sullivan's calculations from earlier--updated to reflect energy and energy burst enhancements.Two characters, both with 28 Str, both Ftr level 16, one of them with a Flaming Shock Greatsword +4, the other with a Flaming Burst Keen Falchion +3.Total AB's:Greatsword Guy: +16 (BAB), +1 (WF), +4 (Greatsword), +9 (Str) = +30/+25/+20/+15Falchion Guy: +16 (BAB), +1 (WF), +3 (Falchion), +9 (Str) = +29/+24/+19/+14Damages:Greatsword Guy: 2d6 + 13 (Str) + 4 (Greatsword) +2 (WS) +1d6 (fire) +1d6 (shock), 17-20/x2 critFalchion Guy: 2d4 + 13 (Str) + 3 (Falchion) + 2 (WS) +1d6 fire, 12-20/x2 crit (+1d10 fire on a crit)Expected damage per round against an AC 25 (ie, low AC!) guy:1. If he's not susceptible to crits.Greatsword guy, partial attack:Hits on a 2+, damage is 7 + 13 + 4 + 2 +3.5 +3.5 = 33 * .95 = 31.35Greatsword guy, full attack:Hits on a 2+, 2+, 5+, 10+, damage is 26 per hit = 33 * .95 + 33 * .95 + 33 * .8 + 33 * .55 = 107.25Falchion guy, partial attack:Hits on a 2+, damage is 5 + 13 + 3 + 2 +3.5 = 26.5 * .95 = 25.175Falchion guy, full attack:Hits on a 2+, 2+, 6+, 11+, damage is 23 per hit = 26.5 * .95 + 26.5 * .95 + 26.5 * .75 + 26.5 * .5 = 83.475No surprises there, of course. That's just for reference.2. If he IS susceptible to critsGreatsword guy, partial attack:Hits on a 2+, damage is 7 + 13 + 4 + 2 = (26 * .95 * 1.2) +(3.5 * .95) + (3.5 * .95) = 36.29Greatsword guy, full attack:Hits on a 2+, 2+, 5+, 10+, damage is 26 per hit = (26 * .95 + 26 * .95 + 26 * .8 + 26 * .55) * 1.2 + (7 * .95 + 7 * .95 + 7 * .8 + 7 * .55)= 124.15Falchion guy, partial attack:Hits on a 2+, damage is 5 + 13 + 3 + 2 = (23 * .95 * 1.45) + (3.5 *.95) + (5.5 *.45*.95) = 37.35875Falchion guy, full attack:Hits on a 2+, 2+, 6+, 11+, damage is 23 per hit = (23 * .95 + 23 * .95 + 23 * .75 + 23 * .5) * 1.45 (3.5 * .95 + 3.5 * .95 + 3.5 * .75 + 3.5 * .5)  + (5.5 * .45 * .95 + 5.5 *.45 * .95 + 5.5 * .45 * .75 + 5.5 * .45 * .5)= 123.87375Comments: Falchion guy was ahead of the game... by 7% on a partial attack and 3.6% on a full attack before figuring in energy enhancements as per Mike Sullivan's original analysis. With energy enhancements figured in, the falchion guy is still ahead on the partial attack--but only by 2.9%--and the greatsword guy is now actually 0.22% ahead of the falchion guy on the full attack.Conclusion: Energy burst enhancements are less efficient than straight up energy enhancements--even on a high crit weapon like a falchion. Consequently, including them will not swing the average damage/round in the falchion wielder's favor. On the contrary, including energy enhancements in the calculation will swing it in favor of the non-critical dependent character.Of course, it's important to remember that these are average calculations. The falchion guy will crit more often than the greatsword guy and thus will often deal more damage on individual attacks. A chart of his damage will have more spikes and peaks than the greatsword guys' and consequently, he may often seem to do more damage since he's "always" criticalling and dealing massive blows even though  the average is less. This analysis also fails to account for cleave and great cleave which may well come into play more often for falchion guy (since they favor combatants who deal massive hits over those who deal a steady stream of above-average hits). Still, I think the analysis is sufficient to demonstrate that ignoring the burst enhancements doesn't invalidate Mike Sullivan's analysis.</blockquote>

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