D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Unfair fight?

[Sam_Konkin]

Today, I fought in a solo coliseum match, and I’m feeling pretty pissed because of the odds my DM threw at me. I’m a Factotum 9. I’m fairly optimized (I use Font of Inspiration, but without any Cunning Surge nova shenanigans).

In the country we’re in, arcane magic is punishable by burning at the stake. So while in the arena, I can’t use any flashy spells, and I can only use spells with subtle effects by making a fairly high Sleight of Hand check (Cunning Knowledge, which allowed me to add my level to the check, allowed me to do that once but no more). So my main strength is gone there. Additionally, I can’t really use magic items to help me, because the net worth of everyone in the party is about 6000 each.

My opponent was an Shock Trooper Warblade 10 (if you’re unfamiliar with it, Shock Trooper allows you to subtract from your AC when Power Attacking while charging instead of your BAB). The arena was completely flat, so I couldn’t take advantage of difficult terrain, which would prevent him from charging. The funny thing is, the DM messed up NPC creation and gave him the maneuver Iron Heart Endurance, which allows him to regain a number of hit points equal to twice his level. But it’s a sixth level maneuver, which can only be first acquired at Warblade 11. When I pointed that out, he rolled with it anyway. “Eh, he’s Level 10.5 or something.”

As far as I could tell, basically the only way I could beat this guy was if I Charm Person’d and Message’d him that I had a girlfriend in the audience and asked him if he would let me win without being too obvious about it. But that felt really cheap to me, so I didn’t do it and now I feel like I was punished for that decision.

So the question I’m asking is: Problem, EN Worlders? *trollface*

 

[Alexander123]

I don't believe in fighting fair or honorably. I think that you should have done what was necessary to win. At least its a good thing it was a tournament and not a life-or-death fight otherwise such nonsense as fighting "honorably" or "fair" would have gotten you killed.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Today, I fought in a solo coliseum match, and I’m feeling pretty pissed because of the odds my DM threw at me. I’m a Factotum 9. I’m fairly optimized (I use Font of Inspiration, but without any Cunning Surge nova shenanigans).

In the country we’re in, arcane magic is punishable by burning at the stake. So while in the arena, I can’t use any flashy spells, and I can only use spells with subtle effects by making a fairly high Sleight of Hand check (Cunning Knowledge, which allowed me to add my level to the check, allowed me to do that once but no more). So my main strength is gone there. Additionally, I can’t really use magic items to help me, because the net worth of everyone in the party is about 6000 each.

My opponent was an Shock Trooper Warblade 10 (if you’re unfamiliar with it, Shock Trooper allows you to subtract from your AC when Power Attacking while charging instead of your BAB). The arena was completely flat, so I couldn’t take advantage of difficult terrain, which would prevent him from charging. The funny thing is, the DM messed up NPC creation and gave him the maneuver Iron Heart Endurance, which allows him to regain a number of hit points equal to twice his level. But it’s a sixth level maneuver, which can only be first acquired at Warblade 11. When I pointed that out, he rolled with it anyway. “Eh, he’s Level 10.5 or something.”

As far as I could tell, basically the only way I could beat this guy was if I Charm Person’d and Message’d him that I had a girlfriend in the audience and asked him if he would let me win without being too obvious about it. But that felt really cheap to me, so I didn’t do it and now I feel like I was punished for that decision.

So the question I’m asking is: Problem, EN Worlders? *trollface*

It doesn't sound like a fair fight. Those happen. This sounds like of the better times for the GM to throw this at you, rather than in a life or death situation. You lost one, but you lived to talk about it.

 

[bobhayes]

It sounds like a slightly unbalanced fight - except for the fact that you had a perfectly good strategy which would win, but chose not to use it. So it wasn't unbalanced, it was you choosing to play suboptimally. Good roleplaying if winning through a charm is out of character, here's some bonus XP...but what's your complaint?

It's a balanced fight if you could reasonably win it. You could have reasonably won it. Obviously, as a spellcaster deprived of the flashy magic, going up against a really nasty warrior type, you weren't going to win without some form of trickery. It was your job to come up with trickery that your character could live with.

 

[Dalamar]

By the encounter building guidelines, I'm not really sure that was a fair fight. A level 10 Warblade should be a decent challenge for a party of 4 9th-level characters, not a single Factotum basically deprived of attack spells (not that you have that many of them, but still). Especially true since the opponent could basically regenerate 20 hit points every few rounds.

 

[Empirate]

I can appreciate the feeling of annoyance. I feel the same when a DM puts me a challenge I find hard to beat without cheese (or what I consider cheesy, depending on the situation).
However, one shouldn't always expect to win. Some fights are not meant to be won. Did your DM expect you to best that "10.5" Warblade, did his plot rely on you beating him, or did he have something else in store in case you couldn't? If the latter, maybe you should just accept the fact that your PC is fallible, and move on.
Or, maybe you should feel good anyway, because you chose not to employ a cheap trick, and stayed "in character" (whatver that means for you) in a highly stressful situation. Really, a standup fight against a fairly optimized pure melee threat is not what a Factotum is meant for. You did OK within the framework of your abilities and your willingness to exploit them.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Even if he was the same level as you, Warblade has a big advantage in a straight on solo fight. That's what they're designed for. If you had dual wielding gnome quick razors and maxed Iaijutsu Focus, maybe you'd have had a chance, but that's pretty cheesy itself (no more so than the DM pitting you against a Shock Trooper one-on-one on completely featureless terrain, though).

2 3 thoughts:

1. I've always liked the idea of using a readied action to move back and sideways as someone moves towards you, such that you end up 5 ft just out of their reach when they reach the end of their charge. Then they lose their turn, and by the rules of readied actions, your initiative changes for future rounds to happen JUST before the one who triggered your ready. Which means you then get your turn next before him, can 5 ft step in, and full attack the moron. If he's got too much charge speed (or a small starting distance), you can always just move completely to the side 10 ft or so to evade the charge and have hte same situation minus the full attack next round. In this case the point would be to get him into melee and strike first, and shut down his option to charge you in future rounds at all.

2. Assuming you had been in the country a while and thus knew of their backwatered-ness re: Arcane spells, have you considered buying some sort of holy symbol trincket and paying some lip service to some sort of god when you cast? I see no way anyone could tell the difference if you faked it, I mean you're already doing them as SLAs and thus casting in armor... And...with the level 5 ability ability to turn undead, you probably HAVE a holy symbol, actually...

3. If you take a really big hit, ask to spend 4 inspiration on the level 13 ability to completely negate a hit. When the DM says no, fire back, "But I thought I was level 9.13!" Seriously, that IH Endurance bs probably singehandedly destroyed any prayer you had of winning.

 

[Dandu]

In the country we’re in, arcane magic is punishable by burning at the stake.

So find some way to get Fire Resistance on a caster and we're good to go?

 

[CuRoi]

It sounds like there is more to the story perhaps as well which would explain the unbalanced encounter. At any rate, you knew the challenge was at least a bit outside the norm (with the ability you knew the opponent wasn't high enough to have) but you decided casting a first level spell (Charm Person) would have been too cheesy? Hey, come on now - you've got to use what you've got, right? It would have been worth a shot I think. Keep kicking yourself but enjoy the character development - you've got an antagonist out there now and a new player goal...

At any rate, while I do prefer "fair" fights for my players, I often have times where its best for players to run, negotiate, or find a different solution. Maybe this gladiator is the man to beat and the main challenge before you or the group moves on in the plot? Maybe Chamring him successfully would have not only gotten you less bruised up, but maybe would have gotten more info that you need. Maybe he's impressed by your skills and says "nice fight" and a friendship starts up? I 'm not sure so I hate to just say "your DM is mean" and leave it at that.

Of course, had you won against such odds, well, thats what legends and such are about, right?

EDIT: Oh, and BTW if it's an arena there technically -should- be guys tougher than you with "unfair" fights. It's sort of how you prove yourself and advance in the rankings or what have you. They used to feed people to lion's in colliseums; I mean fair? No. Entertaining to the crowd? I guess so...at the time...

 

[Seppuku]

As a new player of Factotum class (4th level, new campaign for me) who had his head chewed off over the weekend by a green dragon, I feel your pain. Factotum are not built to be tanks and when put into a tank battle vs a tank (and a superior one compared to other typical tanks), we are not going to fare well. If this was considered by anyone to be a fair match up before the fight started, it may be worth investigating who set this up and what their goal or motivation may have been. Was there money involved? Does someone have a score to settle with you? Who gained the most from this lopsided event?