D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 use of fly spell questions

[douglasesims]

1--pc casts fly on self, uses whip as weapon, positions self to attack directly over enemy just within whip's reach. does anyone see any problems/modifiers for this?

2--pc casts fly on other pc paladin's mount. paladin is on mount. can paladin direct mount to fly? if so, any problems/modifiers for this?

 

[Greenfield]

No, no problem with Fly and any reach weapon. (The whip is an odd choice, but okay.)

Can the Paladin direct his mount to fly? I've heard debates on whether normal horses can be trained to use the ability. I think the answer is to look in "Handle Animals" skill, under training to do "tricks".

Now Paladin's mounts are smarter than regular horses, and get smarter as the Pal gains levels. So if you want to do it without HA tricks, it's a DMs call as to when the Mount is smart enough.

 

[Sekhmet]

1 - No problem, no modifier.
2 - Ride checks become a little more deadly.

 

[douglasesims]

1--have guys in group saying that if flying (hovering via fly spell in this case) directly over head of enemy that either you can't attack from that position or that the enemy would have cover from your feet (they keep saying for some reason that you would be flying around in an upright position or sort of "supermanesque" (typing that word hurt me physically, but that's what one of them said) and that when you stopped and/or were going to attack that you would automatically go into an upright, similar to standing on the ground position because that's the way you know to use your weapon (unless you specifically practice being in some other position while flying and using the weapon). seems to me that you could be in any position, upside down, backward, whatever and as long as you have line of effect/sight and are within range that you could attack without any modifiers related to that. wanted to ask the first time without bias either way to see what sort of answers i got, but with this new information, what do you say?

2--i think that a paladin's mount (starts w/int 6, doesnt it? which has to be at least twice as much as a regular horse, i think, and is also a magical beast anyway, not a horse) could without training but with the help of the empathic link of it's paladin definitely fly. probably could even without the paladin telling it anything via empathic link. 6 intelligence is stupid human range and there's no intelligence minimum needed to fly via the fly spell anyway. i know what it says in the air walk spell, but this isn't air walk. i would think a -10 to ride checks made while the paladin is riding his fly spell imbued mount would be fair. couple guys in group keep saying that it's not natural for a horse (theyre including a paladin's mount in the "horse" category) to fly and so it wouldnt be able to without extensive training (like it says in handle animal, air walk, etc). also, saying that even if allowed that the paladin would have to make a ride check for every move and/or standard action at a large penalty--i say this is overkill. what you say now?

 

[Greenfield]

A Fly spell doesn't grant "perfect" maneuverability, which would allow you to hover or move in any direction, upside down, sideways, etc, but it's not like standing on the ground either.

So my answer to their first objection is that they're idiots. (I have a similar opinion of the whip, as a weapon, BTW.)

Regarding the second point: Empathic isn't telepathic. It's emotion, not words or instruction, and you certainly can't use it to teach lessons.

However, you're right about the Int needed. Like I said, that part is ultimately a DM's call.

 

[douglasesims]

you dont think the empathic link would help? as in allaying any fears the mount may have, etc?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Can the Paladin direct his mount to fly? I've heard debates on whether normal horses can be trained to use the ability. I think the answer is to look in "Handle Animals" skill, under training to do "tricks".

Now Paladin's mounts are smarter than regular horses, and get smarter as the Pal gains levels. So if you want to do it without HA tricks, it's a DMs call as to when the Mount is smart enough.

I don't think Handle Animal applies for a Paladin's mount. As you said, it's smarter than an actual horse, and isn't even considered an animal, as in "the animal type." I was under the impression that since animals have to be Int 1 or 2 only, once a creature hit Int 3+, the Handle Animal skill no longer applied to them.

So yes, I think the Paladin should be able to get his mount to fly with the spell just fine after a few uses of it for practice, if not right away.

 

[Sekhmet]

I'm just going to reiterate for the sake of posterity, and since everyone seems to be ignoring it: Ride check failure no longer means you take a tumble. It means you plummet to the ground and take excessive amounts of fall damage.

That in itself should be the only (and largest) deterrent to having a flying warhorse. The same applies to Pegasii.

The spell Fly gives the target an innate sense of how to use the spell, otherwise it would be useless. Any intelligent creature (Int 3+) would have no problem.
I say this because it does not explicitly state that you must "practice" flying once you've cast it, and your maneuverability does not increase with CL.

 

[Dingleberry]

I'm just going to reiterate for the sake of posterity, and since everyone seems to be ignoring it: Ride check failure no longer means you take a tumble. It means you plummet to the ground and take excessive amounts of fall damage.

That in itself should be the only (and largest) deterrent to having a flying warhorse. The same applies to Pegasii.

Ring of feather falling solves that problem for 2200 gp.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

That and Ride checks to stay mounted are pretty easy aside from an actual unhorsing (trip) check by an enemy, and even if you go unconscious you have a 75% chance to stay in the saddle (military saddle, which you SHOULD have by level 5 if you actually care about mounted combat).