D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 use of fly spell questions

[WHW4]

I think your group is over thinking it a tad. Do what is awesome.

With regards to 1 - Your character can fly however they please within the maneuverability and speed granted by the spell. Saying someone gets cover below you because you have to shift upright to attack? C'mon, that's ridiculous. Unless you have thrown in some Unearthed Arcana or are houserulling it, there is no facing. Give the person higher up in the sky a +1 to attack (from higher air, hehe), and call it a day.

With regards to 2 - Ride checks get bumped up a bit, but if this Paladin is intent on mounted combat, he should already be acing the lower DCs by 5th, no problem. Like others said, falling is still possible with being unhorsed, or if he just so happens to fail a Ride check. The special mount is just that, special. If I was the Paladin, and that horse was my "schtick" I'd be a little peeved that this excellently battle-trained warhorse, that has a seemingly otherworldly bond with me and is the target of (presumably) other spells has to essentially sit it out. Risking a fall is enough of an equalizer at the end of it all. A flying horse with a Paladin on it is awesome. Just do it.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

A flying horse with a Paladin on it is awesome. Just do it.

This. If the DM thinks it should be hard to stay on a flying mount, just say your Paladin uses his standard issue stick up his ass to lodge himself securely into the saddle.

 

[Sekhmet]

just say your Paladin uses his standard issue stick up his ass to lodge himself securely into the saddle.

This.

 

[Ashtagon]

you dont think the empathic link would help? as in allaying any fears the mount may have, etc?

Not really. An empathic link is basically just transmitting emoptions. So the horse is continuously relaying "I am bricking myself ", while the paladin is at best relaying "Woohoo ". Actual instructions and reassurance need to be done the conventional way.

 

[Icyshadowlord]

1--pc casts fly on self, uses whip as weapon, positions self to attack directly over enemy just within whip's reach. does anyone see any problems/modifiers for this?

2--pc casts fly on other pc paladin's mount. paladin is on mount. can paladin direct mount to fly? if so, any problems/modifiers for this?

My view on this would be.

1. I see no problems with this game-mechanic wise, other than the player hitting the roof.

2. I would say that the Paladin could fly since the spell grants the mount the ability to use the spell and its effects. Though depending on how stingy the DM is, the Paladin might or might not need to make Ride checks to stay on it.

 

[TanisFrey]

If the Paladin is high enough level to cast 4th level spells, ha should just consider the Winged Mount spell to give the mount to wings to fly. It is located in the Spell Compendium, p. 240.

A Paladin designed for spell casting, by making a Cleric to Prestige Paladin could do this by 8 level (Cleric 6/Prestige Paladin 2).

Otherwise Ride is still a good skill for a Paladin to take regardless of level. This is do to the fact that if the mount is attacked you can replace the mount's AC with the results of a Ride check. And Ride added to Handle Animal skills can allow you to train the mount to fly on command. You need the Handle Animal to train animals new tricks.

 

[douglasesims]

So--seems like we're good on the dude using Fly to be directly above someone and attack them with a +1 for "higher ground?"

Paladin's Mount's intelligence is too high to be classed as an animal and it is specifically designated as a magical beast where it is described in the PHB. Would everyone that has posted here thus far agree that a Paladin's Mount is not an animal?

Also, would you agree that the subject of a Fly spell does not need to have had ANY training whatsoever in order to fly using the power of that spell unless otherwise stated somewhere in the rules?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

So--seems like we're good on the dude using Fly to be directly above someone and attack them with a +1 for "higher ground?"

I'm against giving the bonus unless the person's actually on higher ground of some sort, not just floating in the air over you. But I'm not aware of any official ruling on the matter, one way or the other.

Paladin's Mount's intelligence is too high to be classed as an animal and it is specifically designated as a magical beast where it is described in the PHB. Would everyone that has posted here thus far agree that a Paladin's Mount is not an animal?

Absolutely.

Also, would you agree that the subject of a Fly spell does not need to have had ANY training whatsoever in order to fly using the power of that spell unless otherwise stated somewhere in the rules?

Definitely, by RAW no training is required because it doesn't say anything about getting acclimated.

 

[Doomherald]

Can the Paladin direct his mount to fly? I've heard debates on whether normal horses can be trained to use the ability. I think the answer is to look in "Handle Animals" skill, under training to do "tricks".

Now Paladin's mounts are smarter than regular horses, and get smarter as the Pal gains levels. So if you want to do it without HA tricks, it's a DMs call as to when the Mount is smart enough.

Fly, the spell, grants the ability to utilize the movement type. This is common sense. If a horse (or any creature) needs training to fly then why wouldn't a human? So everyone that casts the spell needs to spend skill points in flying? Silly.

A Fly spell doesn't grant "perfect" maneuverability, which would allow you to hover or move in any direction, upside down, sideways, etc, but it's not like standing on the ground either.

So my answer to their first objection is that they're idiots. (I have a similar opinion of the whip, as a weapon, BTW.)

Regarding the second point: Empathic isn't telepathic. It's emotion, not words or instruction, and you certainly can't use it to teach lessons.

However, you're right about the Int needed. Like I said, that part is ultimately a DM's call.

You should look up maneuverability again bud. You just described "Good" which is what Fly DOES indeed give you.

Maneuverability | Perfect Good Average Poor Clumsy
Min fwd speed | None None Half Half Half
Hover | Yes Yes No No No
Move backward | Yes Yes No No No
Reverse | Free -5 ft. No No No
Turn | Any 90°/5 ft. 45°/5 ft. 45°/5 ft. 45°/10 ft.
Turn in place | Any +90°/-5 ft. +45°/-5 ft. No No
Maximum turn | Any Any 90° 45° 45°
Up angle | Any Any 60° 45° 45°
Up speed | Full Half Half Half Half Down angle | Any Any Any 45° 45°
Down speed | Double Double Double Double Double
Between down/up | 0 0 5 ft. 10 ft. 20 ft.​

 

[Doomherald]

I don't think Handle Animal applies for a Paladin's mount. As you said, it's smarter than an actual horse, and isn't even considered an animal, as in "the animal type." I was under the impression that since animals have to be Int 1 or 2 only, once a creature hit Int 3+, the Handle Animal skill no longer applied to them.

So yes, I think the Paladin should be able to get his mount to fly with the spell just fine after a few uses of it for practice, if not right away.

You are indeed correct as per the PHB:
Special: You can use this skill on a creature with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 that is not an animal, but the DC of any such check increases by 5. Such creatures have the same limit on tricks known as animals do.

Requirement, regardless of animal or not is still INT 1 or 2 no matter what. handle animal is not allowed to be used against anything more intelligent than that .