D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Why Enlarge PERSON?

[Castellan]

I think this is a perfect example of changes that came in 3e and have continued in 3.5e. Whenever you see a change to the game, or wonder "why was it handled this way?" ask yourself: "How does this make it easier to program in a video game?"

Actually, I'm serious. I'm seeing a very strong trend toward making D&D compatible with computer programmers' needs. It's pretty hard for a computer programmer to envision every use a player might have for a spell, so if you restrict it, you make it easier to handle in a computer role-playing game.

Take identify as another example. Try programming "identify 1 item per level, and casting time is 8 hours." In most online games, one hour goes by in 75 - 90 seconds. Imagine a player having to take 12 minutes of real time to cast a spell. You, as a programmer, also have to allow 1 item per caster level. It's a lot easier to say, "it takes only 1 hour (i.e. 90 seconds) and you only identify 1 item."

I know there are folks who would disagree with my assessment, but as a computer programmer, I'm seeing the changes as a path to easier development of CRPGs. I think we'll see even more as we approach 4e D&D.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I think this is a perfect example of changes that came in 3e and have continued in 3.5e. Whenever you see a change to the game, or wonder "why was it handled this way?" ask yourself: "How does this make it easier to program in a video game?"

Interesting, but faulty, I think. CRPGs have had no problem altering D&D rules in the past when it didn't work for them. I doubt that they've been pressuring the WotC game designers to change the game for programmability, or even whether most game designers would know what's programmable or what's not.

Your identify example is flawed. CRPGs have never had a problem with the passage of time. They already do it, whenever the party wants to "Rest" and regain all their hp and spells. Screen goes black, comes back up, 8 hours have passed. Voila! The change to identify was for players who didn't like waiting until they got back to town to start using their loot.

On the subject of the thread: An interesting note is that Aasimars and Tieflings are now unaffected by it.

Poor aasimar paladins.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Your identify example is flawed. CRPGs have never had a problem with the passage of time. They already do it, whenever the party wants to "Rest" and regain all their hp and spells. Screen goes black, comes back up, 8 hours have passed. Voila! The change to identify was for players who didn't like waiting until they got back to town to start using their loot.

Well, in the older ones, which had only single player (I don't count BG's multiplayer as such). In an MMORPG, or even a CRPG that was designed to be played in Multiplayer (in other words: NWN), you cannot just let 8 hours pass like that if one (of a possible 64 or even more on a server) wants to rest.
BTW: In NWN, Identify has 1 action casting time or so and lets you identify one Item (but you can there get the Lore skill, which is a substitute for Knowledge, to identify an item without magic). Resting will take you 30 seconds real time, and you cannot rest when there's a battle raging in the immedieate vicinity, and for some time after that (cause you're to excited). In the expansion, you have to find a secure room (and close the door) to be able to rest.

 

[Dthamilaye]

Erm, so that means Enlarge is useless for all outsiders, half-celestials, half-dragons, half-fiends, half-ogres, half-elementals, shades, shadow-templated things, undead, well, about half the players and 80% of the enemies?

Ugh. I think I houserule it to "Enlarge" and let it affect any creatures of large size or smaller.

(My players are: half-celestial, half-dragon, fey'ri, shade and a wyrmling dragon )

 

[JoelF]

I'm going to house rule that it affects any creature. There's no enlarge monster spell to cover other creature types, and the precedent for having separate spells for person and monster is for mental spells such as charm, dominate, daze, etc.

I'm probably also going to add a greater enlarge creature and reduce creature spell that will change the creature size by 2 - any suggestions on what level it should be?

JoelF

 

[ruleslawyer]

Erm, so that means Enlarge is useless for all outsiders, half-celestials, half-dragons, half-fiends, half-ogres, half-elementals, shades, shadow-templated things, undead, well, about half the players and 80% of the enemies?

Ugh. I think I houserule it to "Enlarge" and let it affect any creatures of large size or smaller.

(My players are: half-celestial, half-dragon, fey'ri, shade and a wyrmling dragon )

Um, you do understand that your group makeup is rather unique, right?

My question: Is enlarge person balanced? The spell gives reach (!) plus an enlargement bonus to Strength, right? That seems a bit powerful for a 1st-level spell. I had already houseruled enlarge to work this way, and bumped the spell level up to 2nd.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Erm, so that means Enlarge is useless for all outsiders, half-celestials, half-dragons, half-fiends, half-ogres, half-elementals, shades, shadow-templated things, undead, well, about half the players and 80% of the enemies?

Ugh. I think I houserule it to "Enlarge" and let it affect any creatures of large size or smaller.

(My players are: half-celestial, half-dragon, fey'ri, shade and a wyrmling dragon )

Well, the PHB has exactly seven different player character races. All of them are humanoid.

So the freak charakters won't be able to benefit from enlarge? Well, they won't "benefit" from a lot of other spells, either, like hold person, so all-in-all they are lucky. (You can, of course, create a Enlarge Monster spell for such freak parties).

 

[Will]

I think the comment about compatibility with CRPGs is right and wrong.

This is a move to make the rules more 'German,' by which boardgame enthusiasts mean 'detailed and complete.'

The same requirements programming has, of mitigating fuzziness and nailing down exactly how various things interact, of documenting complex interactions, and so forth, are demands many people have for game rules.

So I think the resemblance is not specifically about programming, but about parallel concerns.

While I like low-complexity games, I understand and laud this approach. Me, I can always take out rules if I don't like them, or gloss over details. Its nice to have a worked out foundation to start with, though.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

This is a move to make the rules more 'German,' by which boardgame enthusiasts mean 'detailed and complete.'

I strive to keep my table free of 'German' rules, by which I mean the German translations (which are really bad! The day Wizards changes their German distributor is a day to rejoice)

 

[Number47]

It doesn't bother me that the beneficial spell, Enlarge, only affects humanoids. Is it true the Reduce only affects humanoids, too? If so, that really makes that spell far too useless! Only good when you know you will be encountering Large-size humanoids.