D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Wizard/Druid conversion to 4e

Griznuq

First Post
Hello all,

I have a 3.5E character who is a 12th level Wizard and a 9th level Druid, and I'd like to convert him to 4th edition.

I've read that the Wizard doesn't really convert very well, and I can't find any literature on converting multiclassed characters on-line. I also only currently have the core rule books for 4e, which don't include druids at all...

What would be the best path for me to either convert or make a reasonable faxscimile of this character, and What books would I need?
 

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Converting from 3.5 to 4e is all about the spirit of the character and not so much about the mechanics of the character. If you were a player in my group, I would sit down with you to help define what the character is and does.. not just 'I can cast magic missle 10 times a day', but more like 'I am a dual personality human who half the time is a studious, meticolous student of arcane with a focus on summoning... and the other times draws upon the beast within to charge into his enemies and shred them with his bare hands'

From that, I would look for the best matching class/multi-class options.. which might not be Wizard and/or Druid... it might be Warlock.

I am not sure what books you need, I tend to rely on the character builder for the PCs and focus my money on the DM side of things.

But.. I am sure someone will come along and be much more helpful than I am!
{thats why I love these boards!}
 

Primitive Screwhead: That. Well, mostly.

How a character converts from 3.5 to 4e has very little to do with her class/race combo and (to a lesser degree) the details of her build -- and a lot to do with her general outlook and themes -- and -some- details of her build (as in "what does she do all day?").

To take the examples:

Wizards in 3.5: do everything except heal, sure. But mostly (except for specialist builds like gishes) blast the hell out of things, buff the party, summon monsters to fight things for them, knock enemies out of the fight outright (via save or lose, walls, etc) and/or solve problems in creative ways.

Druids in 3.5: Are almost as flexible as wizards. They heal, summon, save-or-die, blast things to death, and shapeshift into monsters to hide or wreak havoc.

By contrast, in 4e, characters tend to specialize more. But:

Wizards in 4.5: Blast the hell out of things, summon monsters to fight things for them (but only a few times per day), knock enemies out of the fight outright (temporarily), and sometimes solve problems in creative ways (cantrips, rituals). Not so different -- but few buffs, and you do have to specialize more.

Druids in 4e: Blast the hell out of things, summon monsters to fight for them (see wizards), buff (if mostly by making monster defenses bottom out, turning them into walking pincushions), and shift into monsters (but not so much to hide as to play defender/sub striker for a short while).

You could build a pretty decent wizard/druid Int/Wis controller (giving up ritual casting for druid shapeshifting and the ability to access the great druid at wills in wild shape), but this wouldn't so much be "turn into a bird and fly overhead while I blast stuff with fire" as "blast stuff in human form and when the situations's appropriate, turn into a tiger and maul the remaining monsters up-close and personal; when things are tight, use wizard dailies to take monsters out of the fight outright for a while". OTOH, a lot of that you can get just from Druid (though wizard dailies are better, IMO) with some flavor twisting (or just train arcane and take some arcane rituals).

Edit: OTOH, if you're most interested in the bits of Wizard/Druid that are gone (wizard party buffs, druid healing, wizard gishers and druid "turn into a monster and kill everything" fun; that kind of thing) then you might be better off grabbing classes more appropriate to that sort of thing (shamans are the half of the druid that the druid lost; artificers and bards have the buffing the wizard gave up; wardens and barbarians are better at the "shapeshift into something horrible and kill everything" style) and retheming as/if necessary.
 
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He Griznuq, just to let you know, Gnomes were not "tossed out entirely" as you state in your article. They were released in the PHB2, along with the Druid and other familiar faces from 3e.
 



Griznuq, I think there may be some confusion here because, based on your link, you are trying to create an NPC, not a PC. Specifically, you are stat-ing famous Arthurian character Merlin as an NPC.

4e has a big change here from earlier editions -- monsters use different rules than PCs. Monsters don't have player character levels. So, while a multi-class Wizard/Druid is an appropriate way to represent Merlin in earlier editions, in 4e he would simply be statted as a monster (likely a solo or elite). Drizzt, for example, was statted out in a Dragon article (or Dungeon) as a level 21 solo, not as a "Ranger." You did this accurately in your blog post, giving Merlin monster stats.

However, when you ask how to convert "a 3.5 wizard/druid to 4e," to a 4e player, it sound like you are talking about PCs. So you got a lot of (good, thoughtful) responses on how to turn a wizard/druid PC from 3.5 into a 4e PC. But it seems from your link that what you really wanted is NPC stats for Merlin.

Anyway, I'm no master of monster stats, but your version looks reasonable-ish (and appears to be made using the monster builder, which is good). However, someone like Merlin is so iconic that they should probably be a solo or elite, and therefore more powerful. Solos and elites have various other complicating factor in their design (mostly having to do with economy of actions compared to standard monsters) which you can get more advice on from me other posters, if needed.

Note: if you don't expect the party to "fight" Merlin, you don't need any stats for him at all. Non-combatant NPCs in 4e generally don't have statsl, because they simply do whatever the DM wants to have them do to advance the plot -- casting rituals, using "skills", etc. as the DM desires, not according to set rules. If the party needs to interact with Merlin in a challenging, non-combat fashion, you use skill challenges, in which only the players, not Merlin, make skill rolls, and the difficulty levels are based on the PC's levels, not the NPCs stats (since the NPC generally doesn't have stats outside of combat).
 


Minor quibble, but 2E and earlier forms of D&D many times didn't use PC classes to create NPCs or monsters, either -- they sometimes did, but if it wasn't a human or "demi-human" race (like elf, halfling, or dwarf) they were a stat block not too dissimilar to the way 4E does it. 3E is the first version to always treat monsters with the same gradient consistency as PCs.

I'll agree with your major point, though -- if we were, for the sake of argument, going to translate Merlin to 4E PC stats, the important thing is to figure out what you're trying to emulate, and then pick the classes or stats that best model that. In Merlin's case, I'd say look at the abilities you're emulating -- are we looking at the old stories, from Both La Morte d'Artur and even prior (some of the Ambrosius and Merlinus Caledonensis stuff that preceded being linked with "King Arthur")? Or are we looking at the lgends closer to graphic novels and comics, or the D&D stuff?

If we're looking at the written legends, then Merlin had a lot of confusing powers - I'd fathom him an illusionist almost before I'd call him a Wizard. Actually, the Merlin as mentioned in folklore (depending on sources):

  • Had giants for friends, who helped him build Stonehenge
  • Recited poetry
  • Wrote prophecy (or maybe had prophetic visions, I'm a little unclear on this)
  • Could shapechange into multiple forms (animal and man)

Not so much on the Meteor Swarms, Time Stops, and Cloudkills, though.

Based on the original stories, Merlin in 4E terms would not be a wizard at all! He would probably instead be... get this... a Bard, near as I see it, both in 3E terms (the 3.5 bard could do a lot of this) and in 4E, either a Hybrid Druid/Bard, OR a Bard, but with Druid Multiclass feats.

Neat thing is, if you really wanted some fun, have a look at one of the Bard Class features: Multiclass Versatility You can take MORE than one multiclass! So, Merlin the Bard, takes Arcane Initiate, Initiate of the Old Faith, Then the Full set of Novice Power, Acolyte Power, and Adept Power, and Old Merlin can use damn well whatever funky spell, evocation, or utility you please for him for story purposes! His Bardic abilities serve him well for things like making buddies with giants, having minor prophetic moments to help allies in combat, and even covering him and allies with mind-befuddling illusory guises.

Now, Merlin was supposedly a Cambion, a half-man half-demon. Sound like Tiefling, anyone? Hmm, Tieflings get a bonus to Intelligence and Charisma... Perfect for the legendary Bard/Wizard! He'd just need to nix those damned Hellboy-Sized horns on the stereotypical Tiefling head, maybe trim that tail down (maybe the local barber could dock his tail... ;)) Or, leave him with the D&D-style horns and tail, to come as a shock to PCs when they hear these legends about the "famous" Merlin and get in for rude shock when they meet him in person...


Griznuq, I think there may be some confusion here because, based on your link, you are trying to create an NPC, not a PC. Specifically, you are stat-ing famous Arthurian character Merlin as an NPC.

4e has a big change here from earlier editions -- monsters use different rules than PCs. Monsters don't have player character levels. So, while a multi-class Wizard/Druid is an appropriate way to represent Merlin in earlier editions, in 4e he would simply be statted as a monster (likely a solo or elite). Drizzt, for example, was statted out in a Dragon article (or Dungeon) as a level 21 solo, not as a "Ranger." You did this accurately in your blog post, giving Merlin monster stats.

However, when you ask how to convert "a 3.5 wizard/druid to 4e," to a 4e player, it sound like you are talking about PCs. So you got a lot of (good, thoughtful) responses on how to turn a wizard/druid PC from 3.5 into a 4e PC. But it seems from your link that what you really wanted is NPC stats for Merlin.

Anyway, I'm no master of monster stats, but your version looks reasonable-ish (and appears to be made using the monster builder, which is good). However, someone like Merlin is so iconic that they should probably be a solo or elite, and therefore more powerful. Solos and elites have various other complicating factor in their design (mostly having to do with economy of actions compared to standard monsters) which you can get more advice on from me other posters, if needed.

Note: if you don't expect the party to "fight" Merlin, you don't need any stats for him at all. Non-combatant NPCs in 4e generally don't have statsl, because they simply do whatever the DM wants to have them do to advance the plot -- casting rituals, using "skills", etc. as the DM desires, not according to set rules. If the party needs to interact with Merlin in a challenging, non-combat fashion, you use skill challenges, in which only the players, not Merlin, make skill rolls, and the difficulty levels are based on the PC's levels, not the NPCs stats (since the NPC generally doesn't have stats outside of combat).
 

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