Dave Noonan just posted this on the WotC boards.
The question of multi-classed casters is a really good, really tasty one. At Wizards, we've had endless discussions about it, lots of playtests, etc. Unfortunately, I've got a day job, so I can't get drawn into a long board discussion about what does and doesn't work. (Catch me at Gencon, and I'll happily talk and listen in person.)
But what I can do, briefly, is outline some of our thinking with regard to multiclass spellcasters.
When possible, we like to come up with one mechanic, then replicate it across the entire game system where it's appropriate. A rule that somehow lets multiclass casters keep pace with their single-classed brethren (in broad terms: ability to overcome challenges and fun at the game table) should cover all the possible class combos. It should be reasonably easy to execute, and reasonably difficult to exploit (to the point where challenges are no longer challenges or the game isn't fun for you or the other folks at your table).
If that mechanic exists, we haven't found it yet. We've tried lots of things, but nothing's clicked. Frankly, most have been pretty ugly or abusable.
And I suspect that even if we did find that mechanic, it might be too far-reaching or dramatic for 3.5. We did restrain ourselves, after all. There's a lot we left on the cutting room floor because it wasn't good enough, wasn't tested enough, or would force everyone to reboot their campaigns.
The mystic theurge prestige class is not an attempt to do something about multiclass casters. It would make a lousy solution because it's too specific and it relies unduly on the structure of the prestige class.
The mystic theurge _is_ an attempt to clear some game-rule space for an important, if minor, archetype: the guy who can cast frickin' everything. That's what drove me as I wrote him up, and that's what we looked at most closely when we saw him in play. He is a multiclass caster that balances well with his single-class brethren, but he's not supposed to be some big answer to the larger question of multiclass casters.
Maybe someday the Wiz10/Clr10 will be sufficient for the "guy who can cast frickin' everything" archetype. But right now he can't hold his own in EL 20 encounters. Most D&D players realize this, and that's why few are playing Wiz10/Clr10s. (Those that are playing high-level, balanced spellcasters undoubtedly have DMs that have a consummate sense of what makes a good challenge for the folks at their game table.)
Like I said, I don't have time to discuss this at length--my actual project beckons. But I hope you can see where we're coming from.
--Dave.
Designer/Developer, Wizards of the Coast
Very interesting!
Also, on the Arcane Trickster:
Some thoughts on the arcane trickster:
• Class features are pretty much what you've seen before; ditto skills.
• Rog 3/Wiz 3 can't get in. Rog 3/Wiz 5 can.
• The three classes you mention should indeed have purpose-built epic progressions--or at least tweaks rather than slavishly following the established pattern. That's because at 21st level, the baseline pattern for spell progression changes, and you'd want those prestige classes to change correspondingly.
(Andy, naturally, is your best guy for that sort of thing--next to your DM, of course--but I have it on good authority that he has a busy day job.)
• The epic section includes guidelines for building epic progressions for prestige classes, but we don't provide specific epic progressions for _any_ prestige class.
--Dave.
Designer/Developer, Wizards of the Coast
Cheers!
The question of multi-classed casters is a really good, really tasty one. At Wizards, we've had endless discussions about it, lots of playtests, etc. Unfortunately, I've got a day job, so I can't get drawn into a long board discussion about what does and doesn't work. (Catch me at Gencon, and I'll happily talk and listen in person.)
But what I can do, briefly, is outline some of our thinking with regard to multiclass spellcasters.
When possible, we like to come up with one mechanic, then replicate it across the entire game system where it's appropriate. A rule that somehow lets multiclass casters keep pace with their single-classed brethren (in broad terms: ability to overcome challenges and fun at the game table) should cover all the possible class combos. It should be reasonably easy to execute, and reasonably difficult to exploit (to the point where challenges are no longer challenges or the game isn't fun for you or the other folks at your table).
If that mechanic exists, we haven't found it yet. We've tried lots of things, but nothing's clicked. Frankly, most have been pretty ugly or abusable.
And I suspect that even if we did find that mechanic, it might be too far-reaching or dramatic for 3.5. We did restrain ourselves, after all. There's a lot we left on the cutting room floor because it wasn't good enough, wasn't tested enough, or would force everyone to reboot their campaigns.
The mystic theurge prestige class is not an attempt to do something about multiclass casters. It would make a lousy solution because it's too specific and it relies unduly on the structure of the prestige class.
The mystic theurge _is_ an attempt to clear some game-rule space for an important, if minor, archetype: the guy who can cast frickin' everything. That's what drove me as I wrote him up, and that's what we looked at most closely when we saw him in play. He is a multiclass caster that balances well with his single-class brethren, but he's not supposed to be some big answer to the larger question of multiclass casters.
Maybe someday the Wiz10/Clr10 will be sufficient for the "guy who can cast frickin' everything" archetype. But right now he can't hold his own in EL 20 encounters. Most D&D players realize this, and that's why few are playing Wiz10/Clr10s. (Those that are playing high-level, balanced spellcasters undoubtedly have DMs that have a consummate sense of what makes a good challenge for the folks at their game table.)
Like I said, I don't have time to discuss this at length--my actual project beckons. But I hope you can see where we're coming from.
--Dave.
Designer/Developer, Wizards of the Coast
Very interesting!
Also, on the Arcane Trickster:
Some thoughts on the arcane trickster:
• Class features are pretty much what you've seen before; ditto skills.
• Rog 3/Wiz 3 can't get in. Rog 3/Wiz 5 can.
• The three classes you mention should indeed have purpose-built epic progressions--or at least tweaks rather than slavishly following the established pattern. That's because at 21st level, the baseline pattern for spell progression changes, and you'd want those prestige classes to change correspondingly.
(Andy, naturally, is your best guy for that sort of thing--next to your DM, of course--but I have it on good authority that he has a busy day job.)
• The epic section includes guidelines for building epic progressions for prestige classes, but we don't provide specific epic progressions for _any_ prestige class.
--Dave.
Designer/Developer, Wizards of the Coast
Cheers!
Last edited:
