(3.5E) Aw, crap...

[The Little Raven]

...(it takes a rocket scientist to get a simple grapple to work by their rules)...

I have to respond to this. How are grapples so difficult? I'm no rocket scientist, merely an amateur programmer and game developer who works as a cashier for a living, but I figured out grapples in the first 3e game I played.

Grapple = 1d10 + BAB + Strength + Size
A - Medium Fighter 3 (BAB +3, Str +2, Size +0)
B - Small Wizard 2 (BAB +1, Str -1, Size +1)

A tries to grapple B.
A rolls 1d20 and gets a 5 (5 + 3 + 2 + 0 = 10).
B rolls 1d20 and gets a 7 (7 + 1 - 1 + 1 = 8).

A grapples B. Simple.

 

[Seule]

I never used minis before 3rd edition. Then came the revamped fighter, and all those feats that depend on position, like spring attack and mobility. Players who took these feats depended on precise positioning to gain maximum utility from them. We tried miniatures, and found that they added a whole extra level to the combat, beyond "I attack. I hit. I do 4 damage." that we all became hooked rapidly. It didn't hurt that my first character was a Monk, who depended on flanking for effectiveness.
Now, for a small or simple fight I sometimes won't bother with miniatures, particularly if I expect it to last less than a round, but I do rely on maps the rest of the time. I've got both 3 Dwarven Forge sets, and 3 battlemats in various sizes, and I've been known to predraw maps on the smaller battlemats to throw down at opportune times, and say "You see this."
I won't be going back.

However, I also play 7th Sea, and in that combat is cinematic. If the GM says I can reach it, I can, otherwise not. It's not about precision, it's about fast, free action and buckling swashes. Presice location rarely matters as there are no areas of effect per se, and there's no real measurement of how far you can move per round. It's a completely different style, one I like just as much. It's just not D&D.

--Seule

 

[Seule]

Grapple = 1d10 + BAB + Strength + Size
A - Medium Fighter 3 (BAB +3, Str +2, Size +0)
B - Small Wizard 2 (BAB +1, Str -1, Size +1)

The size mod they are using here is the one listed under Grapple, not the generic combat size mod. It's (basically) +4 for every size over Medium, and =4 for every size under Medium. Therefore your example should be like this:

A - Medium Fighter 5 (BAB +3, Str +2, Size +0)
B - Small Wizard -4 (BAB +1, Str -1, Size -4)

Yes, this means that small characters have a disadvantage in grappling. Have you ever tried grappling a child? It's not hard. Small Rogues should probably buy up Escape Artist (which doesn't have this mod) to compensate. Other small characters should carry a dagger so they can still attack.
This, by the way, is what makes colossal grapplers like a Kraken so very dangerous. Huge BAB, huge Str mod, and +16 size mod. Tough to beat.

--Seule

 

[shadow]

Am I the only one that is happy about 3.5e assuming the use of miniatures? For a long time I've been wanting good miniature rules for D&D. I always play with miniatures (or at least counters) when I'm DMing. I've found that miniatures vastly enhance game play. Without them me and my players have gotten into countless arguments such as:

Player:"I shoot him with my bow"
DM: "Dude, he's out of range of your bow"
Player: "What do you mean out of range!? I thought you said he was only 100ft away!"

Combat always devolved into a heated argument about who was next to who, and who was in range of who. Add that to trying to keep track of the positioins of at least 7 or 8 combatants in your head and you realize the pain I went through before I used miniatures.
Some people prefer fast and loose with the rules and pay no heed to much of the written rules. This is fine, and it works if your players like it. But I find such a style of game too arbitrary for my tastes (The success or failure of combat is largely up to the whims of the DM, not the strategies of the players.)

Just my 2cp

 

[Ravellion]

Re: Metric vs. Imperial: While I hold some of the key conversion factors in my head, the Imperial system of weights and measures is *vastly* easier for me to visualize because I (and, I would guess, most Americans) have no practice with the metric system. I know what a gallon looks like through long experience (there's always one in my fridge); I know what a liter looks like only by reference to a gallon. Similarly, I know what a 10' x 15' room looks like because I'm in one roughly that size every day. As an American, I find, for better or worse, that the Imperial system is part of my daily life and the metric system is not. I find games using the metric system very cumbersome because I have to make on-the-fly conversions in my head just to visualize things. I can well imagine, if the situation were reversed, that I'd be seriously put out.

Same here for me though. I would like a Metric option at least, since converting from Imperial to metric is time consuming.

What really ticks me off though (since I can now, through living in the UK, picture the imperial distances) is Fahrenheit. It is only used by the US. Everyone else uses Celsius. I like it when I know when it is freezing (0), room temp (20) Fever (40) or boiling water (100). Fahrenheit is not that easy. There SHOULD be an option for Fahrenheit IMO with celsius being the norm - the market for celsius is simply bigger.

Rav

 

[smetzger]

I have to respond to this. How are grapples so difficult?

Its not the math, its the steps for intiating a grapple. Go ahead and ask about Improved Grapple and/or Grapple over in the rules forum and I bet someone responds and gets it wrong. Heck, an improved grapple example was and may still be incorrect on the WOTC web site.

 

[jgbrowning]

There SHOULD be an option for Fahrenheit IMO with celsius being the norm - the market for celsius is simply bigger.

Rav

Actually, Ravji, its not bigger. The RPG market is much bigger in the US than the rest of the world. Just go here http://www.crh.noaa.gov/pub/metcon.shtml
and print out the charts so you wont have to wonder again.

joe b.

 

[Wormwood]

There SHOULD be an option for Fahrenheit IMO with celsius being the norm - the market for celsius is simply bigger.

Well, that assumes more PHBs are sold outside the US than within.

I'm kind of curious myself, now that I think about it.

edit: Thank you, jgbrowning---perfect timing!

 

[Snoweel]

Hey, if Aussies and Poms can buy foreign cars with right-hand drive, we should be able to buy PHB's with metric conversion.

Actually, if I start work now, I can corner the market!!!

I'll make a fortune.

 

[Alzrius]

Having just read the new update on 3.5E that's posted on the news page, I think my biggest concern has just shifted from the greater focus on minis to the rearrangement of DR.

The way it was, all DR save for damage type (blunt, slashing, piercing) was hierarchical, but now, materials are also being exempted from that structure (silver, cold iron, etc). This means that lycanthropes get DR against any weapon that isn't silver, for example, even if you're using that +5 longsword. And from what it says on the main page, some fiends, such as pit fiends, are going to be next to impossible to hurt with material weapons.

It's not that I think this is necessarily bad, since I can totally see the in-game rational for this, its just that I don't think this was a necessary change, not having heard any DR complaints either from players or people here. This also strikes me as being something that isn't so backwards compatible with existing d20 products as they would have us believe, since thats something of a moderate change, IMO.