[3.5E] Change to Track feat?

[kenjib]

I really hope they keep the ranger at 4 skill points. With d10 hit dice, and full fighter BAB, they really don't deserve more than 4. If you want those skills, how about not using Intelligence as a dump stat?

IMHO any class that can get all the skills they want automatically has too many skill points.

I actually do agree that 4 skill points is probably fine, but just a minor detail - aren't rangers getting dropped to d8 hit points? That could be a balance point for 6 skill points, if that's what WotC decided to do.

 

[Henry]

The text is something like this:
Characters with the Track feat may make a Search check...

Thus, I consider it very likely that Tracking will now be based off Search and not Wilderness Lore/Survival. This seems an appropriate change.

Whoa!

WHHHOOOOAA!

Before we jump into this particular stream bed, could it be possible that this was a misprint? after all, the wording is pretty close to "Characters withOUT the Track feat may make a Search check..."

Further, we know that search checks are used on simple tracks already, without Track Feats.

Also, the wording sounds awfully suspicious to have totally forgotten the Wilderness Lore/Survival skill.

Finally, we haven't seen a word breathed by anyone from WotC (including Ed Stark) on a change like that, which seems significant to take it away from Survival to me...

Merric, I don't suppose I could entice you to post this over in Mortality's forum for tonight's chat with Ed, could I?

 

[coyote6]

I think you should be able to use either Wilderness Lore/Survival or Search to track. It could either be the character's choice (I can see someone being a master at noticing & interpreting subtle signs, and thus both a superb tracker and skilled finder of hidden panels, but not so great at surviving in the wilds; meanwhile, another character might be an excellent outdoorsman and a superb tracker, but not so great at finding secret doors), or be based on situation (e.g., Wilderness Lore/Survival outdoors, Search indoors).

 

[Mercule]

So would a reflex save at (15+tumbler's Dex modifier) for still making an AoO. Alow for an improved tumble which sets it at (20+tumbler's Dex modifier).

And to have an acrobat with any meaningful chance of succeeding at a tumble, they'll be spending a good chunck of their feats on tumbling. No thanks. Skill works much better.

On tracking:

I like the idea of using Search. It allows for that urban tracker/rogue. And it does make so much more sense. Personally, I do see rangers as finding secret doors and the like rather well.

If really don't see a down side to the change. At first, I was concerned about rangers who took Wild Lore to track being shafted, but then I realized that they're getting two more points per level when the change goes into effect. If they don't already have Search, they should be able to acquire it well enough.

 

[Destil]

Tracking isn't very mystical at all. It's just looking for subtle clues in the landscape, that get missed by less skilled/experienced people. It only looks mystical to you because you're an urban dweller who doesn't know much about tracking.

If you want rangers to be better at finding tracks, and rogues to be better at finding secret doors, then circumstance bonuses provide a simple solution to that.

If, as an urban dweller who dosn't know much about tracking, tracking seams mystical while finding complex mechanichal traps is perfectily logical, then dosn't that support having track based on Wilderness Lore and not search?

 

[Malin Genie]

I personally hate the idea of changing Tracking from Wilderness Lore to Search; not so much because of Rangers (who have both as class skills) but because of Barbarians and Druids who take the Track Feat. They are outdoorsy types who by rights should be able to track and hunt better than city-slicker rogues, and basing Track on Wilderness Lore/Survival reflects that.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

It only looks mystical to you because you're an urban dweller who doesn't know much about tracking.

LMAO.

I live over 3 miles from the nearest paved road. Urban city dweller? Lol.

Sorry, that just made me laugh.

 

[aurin777]

The rule is (in 3.0) that a character without the track feat may attempt to track by making a search check, as long as the DC of the check is less than 20. Apparently they are just tying that together.
~~Brandon

 

[Droogie]

I personally hate the idea of changing Tracking from Wilderness Lore to Search; not so much because of Rangers (who have both as class skills) but because of Barbarians and Druids who take the Track Feat. They are outdoorsy types who by rights should be able to track and hunt better than city-slicker rogues, and basing Track on Wilderness Lore/Survival reflects that.

Agreed. Plus, the extra two skill points were sorely needed; by forcing the ranger to max out a new skill that he otherwise didn't need to before (search), it kind of deflates the benefits.

I guess most rangers will be taking the same skills now:
Survival
Search
Spot
Listen
Move S
Hide

Nevermind animal empathy and handle animal. Or ride. I hope its a misprint too.

 

[hong]

If, as an urban dweller who dosn't know much about tracking, tracking seams mystical while finding complex mechanichal traps is perfectily logical, then dosn't that support having track based on Wilderness Lore and not search?

Not necessarily, because to people in the usual quasi-medieval D&D setting, it may not be mystical at all.