D&D 3E/3.5 (3.5e) Early Gunpowder Weapons (Help!)

[WhatThePhysics]

Before I get to the request, here's the fluff.

In my low-fantasy campaign, elves are less like the nature-loving hippies they tend to be in the SRD, and more like cunning, long-lived conquerors. In fact, over the past 800 or so years, they've managed to create this large, pseudo-East Asian kingdom on the mid-eastern/eastern regions of the setting's supercontinent. Pure-blooded elves tend to be highest on the social ladder, by virtue of their longevity and experience, but the kingdom isn't quite discriminate against half-bloods/non-elves. This semi-openness, combined with both their centuries' long experience and control of key trading regions, has allowed their culture to adapt much faster than others'. Weaponized gunpowder is one of their most recent (and highly useful) adaptations.

Flavor aside, I need to give these elves some crude gunpowder weapons. I'm not going to try and limit your imaginations, but I'd like there to be no weapons whose real-world analogues were invented after 1300 CE. This should limit the weapons to the Song/Yuan/Mongolian varieties, and prevent things like cannons, muskets, and flint-lock pistols from cropping up; which is exactly the style I'm aiming for here.

Before you say, "look at p. 145 of the DMG", I'll just say that the only thing I find appropriate on that page is the smoke bomb. The rest just doesn't seem fitting.

So, what do you say to helping out a DM in arming his elven hordes?

NOTE: I'd like posters to refrain from discussions on how realistic or genre-breaking gunpowder weapons and/or rules are. Many DMs and players have differing views on such things, and we all know things as fundamental as hit points and damage aren't anywhere close to being accurate simulations of how reality operates. So, please keep this about game mechanics.

 

[Herzog]

Imagine some of us not having intimate knowledge of the Song/Yuan/Mongolian gunpowder weapon varieties.

You have given a range of weapons you do NOT want to be available, but can you be a bit more specific on what kind of weapons you DO want to have, and what they should approximately (fluff wise) be able to do?

Example could be: 'I want them to be one-shot items or have reload times in the order of 10 minutes, being able to be used by one person, and have approximately the same impact as an arrow but with less accuracy and about triple the damage.'

 

[WhatThePhysics]

My apologies. Here are some of the basic weapon concepts I'm thinking of.

Fire Lance: A 6-inch tube of bamboo or metal, which is usually tied close to the lethal end of a spear. The point-facing end of the tube has a cloth covering to prevent its contents from spilling out, and the wielder-facing end has a tiny hole, with a spark-generating string coming out. The string is pulled to fire the charge, but it can be pulled more than once if it doesn't fire the first time. The tube contains ample amounts of gunpowder, enough to make it a very short-lived, single-use flamethrower. It's not used as a stand-alone weapon often, but it does takes time to remove and replace. It's total range should remain within 25 ft. of the wielder.


Shrapnel Lance: A variant of the fire lance, with an only-metal tube that contains more explosive gunpowder, as well as small beads of metal or stone. It doesn't produce flame, but it does release the beads as lethal projectiles. Unlike the fire lance, it has range increments, but the most-effective range should be within 100 ft. of the wielder. It's identical to the fire lance in all other ways.


Fire Arrow Launcher: A hand-held, 2-foot-long tube of metal that's designed to launch explosive arrows. The arrows themselves are a pouch of gunpowder that's attached to a stick, with that stick coated in a flammable liquid. The arrow detonates either upon hard impact, or after flying long enough for the flames to burn through the pouch. The launcher can be used more than once, as its inner charge of gunpowder is ignited when flame is brought near a small hole that exposes the powder; for convenience's sake, that same hole is used to refill the launcher. Unlike the previous two weapons, this is designed to have a range increment on par with (if not greater than) that of a crossbow.


Land Mine: A wide, hollow pot of ceramic that's completely filled with gunpowder and metal beads, and has a large, removable disk at its opening. It's placed with its opening facing upwards, and detonates when sudden downward pressure forces the disk's flint edges to grind against a steel ring at the opening's mouth. This produces sparks, igniting the gunpowder. Naturally, this is a single-use weapon. There can be larger or smaller sizes, naturally.


Shrapnel Bomb: A small, hollow orb of ceramic that's filled with gunpowder and metal beads. It has a small string attached, generally coated with flammable liquids, and extends inside of the orb. Simply light the string, throw the orb, and detonation should occur right away. (Now that I think about it, this could just be the Bomb weapon on p.145 of the DMG, with the damage type changed to piercing.)


Poison Bomb: Like the shrapnel bomb, but contains a variant of gunpowder that produces noxious fumes in the place of an explosion. Also unlike its more immediately-destructive cousin, it is generally made of metal or stone, allowing it to be reused once depleted. (As with the Shrapnel Bomb, this could just be a re-tooled version of the Smoke Bomb on the same page as the Bomb, but with damage being dealt alongside the fog cloud effect.)

 

[Herzog]

Ok, some answers come to mind:

Fire Lance: Treat this as a non-magical version of Acid Arrow, that does Fire damage instead of Acid damage.

Shrapnel Lance: I think this should produce a cone-like effect.
Not sure how to combine that with range increments though. Also, someone caught nearby should suffer more damage than someone caught in the area at the far end.

Fire Arrow Launcher: Treat this as a (large) crossbow doing fire damage instead of regular damage.

Land Mine: This sounds like a trap, actually. Check the DMG on traps...

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

This is not to the degree of power you've described, but Oriental Adventures p.78 has Eggshell grenades, Flash powder, Flash paper, liquid smoke and sleeping fire. Some of these have appeared to me as early versions of gunpowder and explosives.

 

[Shoe]

Dragon Magazine 321 had great primative firearm rules for 3.5 in it

 

[Greenfield]

It seems to me that you're looking at rockets and bombs more than firearms.

Think skyrockets and their variants. Gunpowder rockets date a long ways back, and were used up until at least the War of 1812. The verse "and the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air" comes to mind.

Look Here

 

[kitcik]

Check the D20 Modern - Past sourcebook

 

[gwyllgi]

the thing is that unless you use pathfinder rules guns are just crappy bows.

also cannons and hand grenades were in use by the yuan and song dynasties.

i don't know if anyone has a problem with PF but tell me if you do because honestly you'll have to use Ultimate Combat if you want anything realistic.

 

[gwyllgi]

It seems to me that you're looking at rockets and bombs more than firearms.

Think skyrockets and their variants. Gunpowder rockets date a long ways back, and were used up until at least the War of 1812. The verse "and the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air" comes to mind.

Look Here

i think you meant something more like this
Congreve rocket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia