3.5 3.5E Nehaschimic Dragons

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Yeah, I can see why the breath weapon was giving you trouble...and in all honesty, it still seems to be rather troublesome. As it is right now, the this breath weapon...

1) Uses the Transcendental [Effect] transcendental ability (d100/Hit Die divine damage).

2) Uses the Doombringer cosmic ability (re-experience the most damage you ever took).

3) Shrink several size categories.

4) Uses a combined Cursed Body/Cursed Mind/Cursed Soul cosmic ability (since they take a luck penalty - to what isn't specified).

5) Uses a combined Karmic [Effect]/Siphoning [Effect] cosmic ability (losing both experience points and quintessence).

...with a successful save negating #2 and #4, and halving #1, #3, and #5.

So yeah, that's quite a mish-mash of abilities there. Unfortunately, I'm not at all sure how these effects keep to the theme of the dragon, and worry that this many effects is lopsided, even for a nehaschimic dragon (as well as being a bit of a chore to juggle...though that goes without saying at epic levels).
 

paradox42

Villager
The luck penalty is just Vexing [Effect]. :) Read it and you'll see. It hits everything.

But yes, there was no existing individual effect which fit this monster, so I knew I'd be making a new one like I did for the Firmament Dragon. And of the "copy" abilities that could be used offensively, the only one I could really see being useful for this was Doombringer (of course, you were correct about that).

Really, if constructed as an actual effect ability, the way I did Alpha [Effect] for the Firmament, it'd properly use d20s instead of d100s, since that's Cosmic [Effect]- but given that Adamic Dragons are allowed to use Transcendental for their breath weapons, that looked really weak to me.

The intended theme of the breath weapon- if I made it a single effect ability like Alpha or Atomic- is "Diminishing." Every one of the sub-effects diminishes the target in some way, it's just that together they diminish it in several ways simultaneously rather than concentrating on one way like hit points.

The shrinking idea was actually what I started with, since no existing effect does that (even in the core rules) and I thought it fit this dragon nicely given that it's supposed to be from a micro-universe. The text doesn't really spell this out, just hints at it instead, but an idea I was keeping in mind the entire time I was making this is that universes can be connected to each other such that an entire "microcosm" can exist within a single atom or particle in a "macrocosm" universe. The dragon's supposed to be coming out of such a microcosm to enter the macrocosm, so an incredible size change is already part of its makeup. Therefore, maybe it would have the ability to "pull down" inhabitants of the macrocosm towards its own original level, possibly even to fuel its own explosive growth in the first place. The number of size categories shifted by the effect was something I arrived at by comparison with Poison [Effect] among others, since a primary game effect of such a size change would be loss of STR and CON.
 

paradox42

Villager
New Breath Weapon

Tonight at work I had a brainstorm and finally came up with an effect that I think works for the Mirrorwarp Dragon's breath weapon, beyond the one I originally had (the "Diminishing Effect" that was a mishmash of Karmic, Vexing, Siphoning, shrinking, and Doombringer). The new one is more complicated to explain, but paradoxically I think would be easier to actually use in play once you "get" the concept of it. It basically turns the opponent's power against it, much like most of the dragon's other abilities. See what you think!

I'll also be turning that effect into a new [Effect] ability in the Custom Abilities thread, but probably tomorrow rather than tonight since I'm rather tired now.
 
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Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hiya mate! :)

Sounds interesting. I have been wracking my brains to come up with some new energy types for 4E. I don't like ones that are simply a different damage type unless they have some sort of accompanying side effect.

The obvious example being Void energy damage being permanent until a Ritual is performed.
 
So what other types could exist?

Temporal Damage? Like ongoing damage but is rolled every round rather than being a fixed amount. (So an ability might say, "Temporal Winds: Close Blast 5, +10 vs. Reflex, 3d6+3 temporal damage [save ends]".)

Immolation Damage (or Destruction Damage): always hits the target's vulnerabilities? (So if the target is vulnerable "fire 10" to anything it is automatically vulnerable 10 to Immolation Damage.)

What do you think?
 

paradox42

Villager
It's a bit off the topic of 3.5E Nehaschimic Dragons, and I know next to nothing about 4E after the first trio of core books (PHB1 and its mates), but I'll bite.

I've mentioned in several other threads the fact that my game features seven "Advanced Energy" types that are considered equivalent (in "level cost") to Force Damage; in fact Force is one of the seven types. Here, I will list all seven types with explanations of what they are and do. Perhaps it will be useful to your 4E endeavors somehow.

  • Force: Listing this one first, out of alphabetical order, just because this is the one everybody knows already. Its special effect is that it hits Ethereal and Incorporeal targets just as easily as regular ones.
  • Disruption: This is defined as "the type of damage the Disintegration spell does." The fact that it works a lot like the phasers on Star Trek, when set to kill, helps sell this concept as an energy type. This energy invariably appears a sickly green color, and if a target is reduced to 0 hit points (or less) by it, then grab a dustpan- there won't be a body.
  • Electromagnetic: This is in my game largely because I bring in lots of sci-fi tropes to mix with the fantasy- think post-apocalyptic Dragonstar with much higher tech before the crash. Robots are a subtype of Construct in my game, and characters can acquire items of ancient technology that still work if you can find ways to power them. I mention these two things because they are what EM damage interacts with. Its first special effect is that non-Construct creatures are assumed to be immune to it unless otherwise specified; Constructs not specifically made using technological components are likewise usually immune. EM damage that hits immune critters deals half damage to them, and the damage is nonlethal. It can hit robots just fine, though- which is convenient if you're a spellcaster whose Fighter friends just can't seem to stop charging into those crowds of old metal machines. The second EM special effect, arguably more useful in many games, is that it can provide tech devices with power- all such devices are assumed to use standardized Power Cells and carry "Charge Units" which work essentially like psionic power points do in some psionic items. EM "damage" applied to such an item just recharges it with a number of CUs equal to the "damage" dealt, instead of actually harming it.
  • Gelid: This energy type is defined in the most basic sense as "Cold so cold that even Ice Elementals fear it." A more precise definition is, cold so intense that it actually creates new states of matter such as liquid helium, metallic hydrogen, superfluids, Bose-Einstein condensates, and so on. In other words, really really close to Absolute Zero (and yes, there is a 9th-level attack spell called Absolute Zero which is related to this damage type). Its special effect is that creatures which are Immune to Cold still take half damage from this- or one-quarter on a successful save against, say, a Gelidball- and also that any target reduced to 0 hit points is flash-frozen and effectively dead (though this state is also similar to petrification). Cold Resistance is utterly useless against Gelid damage, no matter how large it is. Gelid damage also counts as Frostburn damage, if you're using that book.
  • Particle: This is defined as "damage dealt by antimatter or other exotic particles." It works by converting part of its target to energy, which tends to have detrimental effects if the converted portion happens to include, say, the target's spleen. Its special effect is that if a target takes more Particle damage in a single round than twice its CON score, it is treated as being exposed to dangerous radiation (note: this is a different game effect than the Radiation energy type, which I explain below. Yes, this occasionally gets confusing, but consider how many different ways the D&D game uses the word "level" before complaining). Under typical IH rules, given the existence of the Kiloton spell, I'd suggest just treating this as ability damage hitting the physical scores; my own Radiation rules incorporated "crazy mutation effects" lovingly borrowed from Gamma World and are too complex to explain here.
  • Plasma: Gelid's opposite number, this is the energy type defined as "Fire so hot that even Fire Elementals fear it." This isn't volcano-hot, it's center-of-the-sun hot. Accretion-disk-of-a-black-hole hot. Hot enough to go far beyond violet and make X-Rays and Gamma Rays. Plasma damage deals half damage to creatures with Immunity to Fire (or one quarter on a successful save, where appropriate), but bypasses Fire Resistance like it isn't even there. There is no listed special effect for reducing a target to 0 hit points with Plasma, but given typical nuke effects, one could safely add in vaporization I suppose if one wanted to extend the rules a teensy bit.
  • Radiation: This is the damage a laser does, and/or high-energy photons like X-Rays and Gammas. Immunity to Electricity will let a creature take half damage from Radiation, or one quarter on a successful save yadda yadda, but Electricity Resistance is useless. It isn't part of the standard rules for Radiation damage to ding a target with the "exposure to dangerous radiation" status ailment like Particle damage does, but most items and spells that deal Radiation damage also include the possibility of inflicting that status ailment too. I decided to do that because it's quite possible for lasers, even while vaporizing tissues, to leave other tissues right next door to them completely untouched- which means, no radiation sickness from a laser hit.
So, there they are- the seven Advanced Energy types. Use 'em (or not) at your discretion.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hi paradox42 amigo! :)

Thanks for taking the time to go into such detail.

A few comments:

1. Force is already in 4E its one of the second tier (two tiers of 5 energies) sources.

Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Thunder
Force, Necrotic, Poison, Psychic, Radiant

I'd like to have another two tiers (of 5 each) after that.

Probably...

Divine (Odylic), Ley Line (Telluric), Radiation (Atomic), Void (Obyric), Warp (Ectenic)

...for the first 5.

With probably a few 'Anti' [insert dimension] sources or something like that for the next 5.

2. Disruption, interesting. Have to think about it.

3. Electromagnetic I wonder if it would be of any real use outside a sci-fi campaign?

4 & 6. Gelid & Plasma I have contemplated, but I sort of don't want to have energy sources that are simply the same only better. I think you could have individual abilities that do things like this using cold and fire damage. For instance the Red Dragon in 4E can 'burn' fire resistance away. Stuff like that.

5. Particle, I am working on an Anti-Matter energy type, but haven't nailed the details as yet.

7. Radiation, I have this already, although it works a lot differently to your idea. ;)
 
I'd like to have another two tiers (of 5 each) after that.

Probably...

Divine (Odylic), Ley Line (Telluric), Radiation (Atomic), Void (Obyric), Warp (Ectenic)
Where do the terms Odylic and Obyric come from? I recognize the other three...


With probably a few 'Anti' [insert dimension] sources or something like that for the next 5.
Maybe ... Anti-Entropy (Empyrean = somewhat analogous to Radiant), Anti-Matter (Annihilation = somewhat analogous to Force [annihilation to pure energy etc.]), Anti-Time (Withering = somewhat analogous to Necrotic), Anti-Spirit (Soulburning = somewhat analogous to Poison), Anti-Thought (Madness = somewhat analogous to Psychic)?



Also possibly a damage type which especially (or only) effective against incorporeal creatures. I have some ideas for a dragon that works that way...


Would it make sense in 4e to have a dragon which has much bigger gaps between age categories? Starting at low Heroic Tier and going up to Sidereal or Eternal level...
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hiya mate! :)

Khisanth the Ancient said:
Where do the terms Odylic and Obyric come from? I recognize the other three...
Occult references to positive and negative forces, Od and Ob.

Maybe ... Anti-Entropy (Empyrean = somewhat analogous to Radiant), Anti-Matter (Annihilation = somewhat analogous to Force [annihilation to pure energy etc.]), Anti-Time (Withering = somewhat analogous to Necrotic), Anti-Spirit (Soulburning = somewhat analogous to Poison), Anti-Thought (Madness = somewhat analogous to Psychic)?
I'm sure I'll (we'll) think of something. I'll be concentrating on the Legendary Tier (and a little above) for now, so we won't have to work these out just yet. The naming bit is the easy part, its the coming up with a whole new 'schtick' thats the tricky bit. :)

Also possibly a damage type which especially (or only) effective against incorporeal creatures. I have some ideas for a dragon that works that way...
I think I would maybe lump this in with Gelid and Plasma in that its better suited as a power rather than an energy type.

Also, Incorporeal in 4E just means half damage, so to overcome it you just need to deal double damage. :p

Would it make sense in 4e to have a dragon which has much bigger gaps between age categories? Starting at low Heroic Tier and going up to Sidereal or Eternal level...
I don't see why? I think the 7-level gap seems about right to me. You don't want to be fighting a baby Black Hole Dragon at level 1.
 
Hiya mate! :)



Occult references to positive and negative forces, Od and Ob.
OK thanks.




I think I would maybe lump this in with Gelid and Plasma in that its better suited as a power rather than an energy type.

Also, Incorporeal in 4E just means half damage, so to overcome it you just need to deal double damage. :p
Sure, it should probably just be an unique ability of the one monster that I have in mind that does that.

I meant something like reversing the normal incorporeal effect - so that it does twice the damage to incorporeal creatures that it does to corporeal ones, rather than half.

(In 3.5e it would probably ignore the miss chance, and deal a larger die type damage - something like horrid wilting does vs. plants and water creatures.)

I don't see why? I think the 7-level gap seems about right to me. You don't want to be fighting a baby Black Hole Dragon at level 1.
Not for the normal true, epic/neotic, adamic, or nehaschimic dragons ... but I have an idea floating around for the Resonant (Wave) Dragon that (in 3.5e) E
 
Hiya mate! :)



Occult references to positive and negative forces, Od and Ob.
OK thanks.




I think I would maybe lump this in with Gelid and Plasma in that its better suited as a power rather than an energy type.

Also, Incorporeal in 4E just means half damage, so to overcome it you just need to deal double damage. :p
Sure, it should probably just be an unique ability of the one monster that I have in mind that does that.

I meant something like reversing the normal incorporeal effect - so that it does twice the damage to incorporeal creatures that it does to corporeal ones, rather than half.

(In 3.5e it would probably ignore the miss chance, and deal a larger die type damage - something like horrid wilting does vs. plants and water creatures.)

I don't see why? I think the 7-level gap seems about right to me. You don't want to be fighting a baby Black Hole Dragon at level 1.
Not for the normal true, epic/neotic, adamic, or nehaschimic dragons ... but I have an idea floating around for the Resonant (Wave) Dragon that (in 3.5e) would go from low-true (CR2 or so as a Wyrmling) to high-nehaschimic (CR 700+ as a great wyrm).
 

paradox42

Villager
...I have an idea floating around for the Resonant (Wave) Dragon that (in 3.5e) would go from low-true (CR2 or so as a Wyrmling) to high-nehaschimic (CR 700+ as a great wyrm).
Sounds like a wonderful addition to this thread, if you can make it work and stat it up! :)

I actually saw a rather obvious hole to be filled in my own Nehaschimics, when I put the salient features of them all together in a table for comparison. Turns out, without being really conscious of it, I left two dimensions untouched with my own creations (i.e. not the original three, even though my versions of the Black Hole and Quasar are posted above). My two- the Firmament and Mirrorwarp- do not overlap with each other, and that leaves room for one more.

I'm working out what to give it and may post it in a day or two.
 

paradox42

Villager
This is the "fill in the dimensional hole" dragon I mentioned in that post on the 20th. It was somewhat troublesome to stat, because it (unlike most Nehaschimic Dragons, but like the Nexus Dragon) gets only one bonus instead of two- its second "bonus" is a radiated "null penalty" that hits its opponents instead. Even so, I managed it just the same, and here it is.

Chronovoid Dragon
Manifold Dragon, Quantum Foam Dragon


Macro-Tiny Dragon (Extraplanar)
Environment: Any (usually deep space)
Organization: Solitary, Family (2 Young Adult or higher plus 1 or more offspring), or Clan (1-2 Old or higher, 4-10 Young Adult or higher, and 3-18 Juvenile or lower)
Challenge Rating: Wyrmling 512; Very Young 536; Young 560; Juvenile 584; Young Adult 608; Adult 632; Mature Adult 656; Old 680; Very Old 704; Ancient 728; Wyrm 752; Great Wyrm 776
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: Wyrmling 513-535 HD (Macro-Tiny); Very Young 537-559 HD (Macro-Tiny); Young 561-583 HD (Macro-Tiny); Juvenile 585-607 HD (Macro-Tiny); Young Adult 609-631 HD (Macro-Tiny); Adult 633-655 HD (Macro-Tiny); Mature Adult 657-679 HD (Macro-Tiny); Old 681-703 HD (Macro-Tiny); Very Old 705-727 HD (Macro-Tiny); Ancient 729-751 HD (Macro-Tiny); Wyrm 753-775 HD (Macro-Tiny); Great Wyrm 777-799 HD (Macro-Tiny); Great-Great Wyrm 801-823 HD (Macro-Tiny)
Level Adjustment: Wyrmling +256; Very Young +268; Young +280; Juvenile +292; Young Adult +304; Adult +316; Mature Adult +328; Old +340; Very Old +352; Ancient +364; Wyrm +376; Great Wyrm +388

The emptiness before you is blocked out by an enormous form of darkness so dark that it actually makes a night sky seem bright as day by comparison. This deep, utter blackness- so black it defies description- slowly takes shape as a vaguely serpentine form, but it's when the colors start to appear- insane colors unlike any you've seen before, with no words to describe them, shimmering across its surface in no discernible pattern in flashes like ripples in some unfinished sea- that you truly understand that the thing before you is somehow alive, even if it shouldn't properly be. Then what seems to be its front portion turns toward you, and you begin to realize that it has always been like this, the creature is always there, always has been there, always will be there... and you are simply in its way...

<table style="font-size: small;" title="Chronovoid Dragons By Age" border="1"><tbody><tr><th colspan="11" align="left">Chronovoid Dragons By Age</th></tr><tr><th align="left" valign="bottom">Age</th><th valign="bottom">Size</th><th align="left" valign="bottom">Hit Dice (hit points)</th><th align="left" valign="bottom">AC</th><th valign="bottom">Base Attack/Grapple</th><th valign="bottom">Attack</th><th valign="bottom">Fort Save</th><th valign="bottom">Ref Save</th><th valign="bottom">Will Save</th><th align="left" valign="bottom">Breath Weapon</th><th valign="bottom">Mind Warp DC</th></tr><tr><td valign="top">Wyrmling</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">512d1000+8,192 (520,192 hp)</td><td valign="top">585 (-128 size, +128 deflection, +64 foresight, +511 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+512/
+648</td><td align="center" valign="top">+488</td><td align="center" valign="top">+338</td><td align="center" valign="top">+322</td><td align="center" valign="top">+450</td><td valign="top">256d20 for 64 rounds (DC 346)</td><td align="center" valign="top">458</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Very Young</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">536d1000+11,792 (547,792 hp)</td><td valign="top">631 (-128 size, +134 deflection, +80 foresight, +535 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+536/
+692</td> <td align="center" valign="top">+532</td> <td align="center" valign="top">+372</td> <td align="center" valign="top">+350</td> <td align="center" valign="top">+482</td> <td valign="top">268d20 for 80 rounds (DC 380)</td> <td align="center" valign="top">492</td> </tr><tr><td valign="top">Young</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">560d1000+15,680 (575,680 hp)</td><td valign="top">677 (-128 size, +140 deflection, +96 foresight, +559 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+560/
+736</td><td align="center" valign="top">+576</td><td align="center" valign="top">+406</td><td align="center" valign="top">+378</td><td align="center" valign="top">+514</td><td valign="top">280d20 for 96 rounds (DC 414)</td><td align="center" valign="top">526</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Juvenile</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">584d1000+19,856 (603,856 hp)</td><td valign="top">723 (-128 size, +146 deflection, +112 foresight, +583 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+584/
+780</td><td align="center" valign="top">+620</td><td align="center" valign="top">+440</td><td align="center" valign="top">+406</td><td align="center" valign="top">+546</td><td valign="top">292d20 for 112 rounds (DC 448)</td><td align="center" valign="top">560</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Young Adult</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">608d1000+24,320 (632,320 hp)</td><td valign="top">769 (-128 size, +152 deflection, +128 foresight, +607 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+608/
+824</td><td align="center" valign="top">+664</td><td align="center" valign="top">+474</td><td align="center" valign="top">+434</td><td align="center" valign="top">+578</td><td valign="top">304d20 for 128 rounds (DC 482)</td><td align="center" valign="top">594</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Adult</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">632d1000+29,072 (661,072 hp)</td><td valign="top">815 (-128 size, +158 deflection, +144 foresight, +631 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+632/
+868</td><td align="center" valign="top">+708</td><td align="center" valign="top">+508</td><td align="center" valign="top">+462</td><td align="center" valign="top">+610</td><td valign="top">316d20 for 144 rounds (DC 516)</td><td align="center" valign="top">628</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Mature Adult</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">656d1000+34,112 (690,112 hp)</td><td valign="top">861 (-128 size, +164 deflection, +160 foresight, +655 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+656/
+912</td><td align="center" valign="top">+752</td><td align="center" valign="top">+542</td><td align="center" valign="top">+490</td><td align="center" valign="top">+642</td><td valign="top">328d20 for 160 rounds (DC 550)</td><td align="center" valign="top">662</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Old</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">680d1000+39,440 (719,440 hp)</td><td valign="top">907 (-128 size, +170 deflection, +176 foresight, +679 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+680/
+956</td><td align="center" valign="top">+796</td><td align="center" valign="top">+576</td><td align="center" valign="top">+518</td><td align="center" valign="top">+674</td><td valign="top">340d20 for 176 rounds (DC 584)</td><td align="center" valign="top">696</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Very Old</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">704d1000+45,056 (749,056 hp)</td><td valign="top">953 (-128 size, +176 deflection, +192 foresight, +703 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+704/
+1000</td><td align="center" valign="top">+840</td><td align="center" valign="top">+610</td><td align="center" valign="top">+546</td><td align="center" valign="top">+706</td><td valign="top">352d20 for 192 rounds (DC 618)</td><td align="center" valign="top">730</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Ancient</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">728d1000+50,960 (778,960 hp)</td><td valign="top">999 (-128 size, +182 deflection, +208 foresight, +727 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+728/
+1044</td><td align="center" valign="top">+884</td><td align="center" valign="top">+644</td><td align="center" valign="top">+574</td><td align="center" valign="top">+738</td><td valign="top">364d20 for 208 rounds (DC 652)</td><td align="center" valign="top">764</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Wyrm</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">752d1000+57,152 (809,152 hp)</td><td valign="top">1045 (-128 size, +188 deflection, +224 foresight, +751 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+752/
+1088</td><td align="center" valign="top">+928</td><td align="center" valign="top">+678</td><td align="center" valign="top">+602</td><td align="center" valign="top">+770</td><td valign="top">376d20 for 224 rounds (DC 686)</td><td align="center" valign="top">798</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Great Wyrm</td><td align="center" valign="top">Ma-T</td><td valign="top">776d1000+63,632 (839,632 hp)</td><td valign="top">1091 (-128 size, +194 deflection, +240 foresight, +775 natural)</td><td align="center" valign="top">+776/
+1132</td><td align="center" valign="top">+972</td><td align="center" valign="top">+712</td><td align="center" valign="top">+630</td><td align="center" valign="top">+802</td><td valign="top">388d20 for 240 rounds (DC 720)</td><td align="center" valign="top">832</td></tr></tbody></table>
 
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paradox42

Villager
<table style="font-size: small;" title="Chronovoid Dragon Abilities By Age" border="1"><tbody><tr><th colspan="12" align="left">Chronovoid Dragon Abilities By Age</th></tr><tr><th align="left" valign="bottom">Age</th><th align="left" valign="bottom">Speed</th><th valign="bottom">STR</th><th valign="bottom">DEX</th><th valign="bottom">CON</th><th valign="bottom">INT</th><th valign="bottom">WIS</th><th valign="bottom">CHA</th><th align="left" valign="bottom">Special Abilities</th><th valign="bottom">Damage Reduction</th><th valign="bottom">Caster Level</th><th valign="bottom">SR</th></tr><tr><td valign="top">Wyrmling</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">90</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">42</td><td align="center" valign="top">266</td><td align="center" valign="top">267</td><td align="center" valign="top">266</td><td valign="top">Abrogate, Alter Reality, Evil Eye, Extradimensional, Mind Warp, Time Warp, Transtemporal, Unknowing</td><td align="center" valign="top">510/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">320th</td><td align="center" valign="top">586</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Very Young</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">98</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">54</td><td align="center" valign="top">274</td><td align="center" valign="top">275</td><td align="center" valign="top">278</td><td valign="top">
</td><td align="center" valign="top">535/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">348th</td><td align="center" valign="top">626</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Young</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">106</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">66</td><td align="center" valign="top">282</td><td align="center" valign="top">283</td><td align="center" valign="top">290</td><td valign="top">1 total Virtual Size Category</td><td align="center" valign="top">560/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">376th</td><td align="center" valign="top">666</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Juvenile</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">114</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">78</td><td align="center" valign="top">290</td><td align="center" valign="top">291</td><td align="center" valign="top">302</td><td valign="top">1 total Virtual Size Category</td><td align="center" valign="top">580/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">404th</td><td align="center" valign="top">706</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Young Adult</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">122</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">90</td><td align="center" valign="top">298</td><td align="center" valign="top">299</td><td align="center" valign="top">314</td><td valign="top">2 total Virtual Size Categories</td><td align="center" valign="top">605/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">432nd</td><td align="center" valign="top">746</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Adult</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">130</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">102</td><td align="center" valign="top">306</td><td align="center" valign="top">307</td><td align="center" valign="top">326</td><td valign="top">2 total Virtual Size Categories</td><td align="center" valign="top">630/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">460th</td><td align="center" valign="top">786</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Mature Adult</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">138</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">114</td><td align="center" valign="top">314</td><td align="center" valign="top">315</td><td align="center" valign="top">338</td><td valign="top">3 total Virtual Size Categories</td><td align="center" valign="top">655/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">488th</td><td align="center" valign="top">826</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Old</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">146</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">126</td><td align="center" valign="top">322</td><td align="center" valign="top">323</td><td align="center" valign="top">350</td><td valign="top">3 total Virtual Size Categories</td><td align="center" valign="top">680/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">516th</td><td align="center" valign="top">866</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Very Old</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">154</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">138</td><td align="center" valign="top">330</td><td align="center" valign="top">331</td><td align="center" valign="top">362</td><td valign="top">4 total Virtual Size Categories</td><td align="center" valign="top">700/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">544th</td><td align="center" valign="top">906</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Ancient</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">162</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">150</td><td align="center" valign="top">338</td><td align="center" valign="top">339</td><td align="center" valign="top">374</td><td valign="top">4 total Virtual Size Categories</td><td align="center" valign="top">725/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">572nd</td><td align="center" valign="top">946</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Wyrm</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">170</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">162</td><td align="center" valign="top">346</td><td align="center" valign="top">347</td><td align="center" valign="top">386</td><td valign="top">5 total Virtual Size Categories</td><td align="center" valign="top">750/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">600th</td><td align="center" valign="top">986</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">Great Wyrm</td><td valign="top">Superluminal</td><td align="center" valign="top">178</td><td align="center" valign="top">10</td><td align="center" valign="top">174</td><td align="center" valign="top">354</td><td align="center" valign="top">355</td><td align="center" valign="top">398</td><td valign="top">5 total Virtual Size Categories</td><td align="center" valign="top">775/timeless</td><td align="center" valign="top">628th</td><td align="center" valign="top">1026</td></tr></tbody></table>
Chronovoid Dragons are predators of the higher dimensions, finding universes that are old and/or weak and wriggling into them between the dimensions of Entropy and Time to feast on the connections between moments. This feasting causes a breakdown in the order of time, leading in turn to a loss of cause and effect, fates, memories, history, and eventually even physical laws (which are of course simply a method of determining when one possibile configuration of the universe can arise from another) in the targeted reality. Universes sapped of their connections by Chronovoid Dragons become nightmarish places filled with graveyards of partial histories, chunks of time and space that are stitched together with no rhyme or reason, where distance is meaningless and action is pointless, and all remaining "life" is blind, deaf, and incapable of true observation because to be otherwise would imply that there is a sane sequence of events left to observe. Uniquely among known Nehaschimic Dragon breeds, Chronovoid Dragons actually stay together in family groups, and often hunt together when a scout finds a new feeding ground ripe for feasting.

Combat
A Chronovoid Dragon usually opens combat by aiming its breath weapon against whichever opponent is hit the most by its Abrogate ability, from all three relative time points (that is, the chosen opponent is hit three times by the breath weapon). This not only damages the opponent in the immediate term, but also sets it up to take further damage in subsequent rounds, and thus renders it weaker and less dangerous. When fighting a large number of opponents (who can, as the dragon knows, potentially give it more dangerous abilities than its Abrogate can handle), a Chronovoid Dragon will rely on using delaying tactics to give its Extra-Dimensional presence time to work. Once it is large enough relative to its opposition, the dragon can be confident of victory. It is also worth noting that Chronovoid Dragons who attack as part of a family group might sacrifice themselves to give older and more powerful members of the family or clan time to grow beyond the enemy's ability to resist, since the older members of the clan can always use Alter Reality to bring them back if they survive the encounter.

Abrogate (Su): Chronovoid Dragons destroy the integrity of memories within those that get too close to them. By manipulating this effect, a Chronovoid Dragon can cause any one opponent within range of its Mind Warp ability to "forget" its most useful attack or ability, and thereby be unable to use it. As a Chronovoid Dragon grows, it is able to cause more episodes of "forgetfulness" this way, and thus cause more opponents to be rendered unable to use their best abilities. For each age category it attains, a Chronovoid Dragon can negate one ability; thus, a Juvenile Chronovoid Dragon can negate four abilities of its opponents, while a Great Wyrm would be capable of negating 12 such abilities. If the dragon chooses to focus its negation upon one opponent, or more precisely focus more than one "negate the best ability" effect on one opponent, then that opponent loses its best ability AND its second-best, third-best, or however many abilities are negated by the dragon. In other words, multiple Abrogates applied to the same opponent stack, and very dangerous opponents can thus find themselves rendered nearly helpless in opposing the dragon. This ability is effective against any opponent that gets within Mind Warp range of the dragon; that is, if the opponent is close enough to roll a save against the dragon's Mind Warp ability, then it is potentially affected by the Abrogate ability. The dragon does not get to PICK which ability to eliminate from a given opponent (the Abrogate ability itself picks independently of the dragon's consciousness, according to what the DM feels is most useful against the dragon in any given round), but the Dragon does know in a given round what abilities each of its opponents loses to Abrogate.

Alter Reality (Su): Chronovoid Dragons can pick and choose which moments in a given Reality to stitch together, after consuming the connections between them. Once per round, as a free action, a Chronovoid Dragon can duplicate any spell of a level equal to or less than its number of Automatic Metamagic Capacity feats + 9. This ability can even duplicate Epic spells of a DC up to the dragon's Spellcraft skill modifier + 20.

Breath Weapon (Su): A Chronovoid Dragon's breath weapon is a line of destructive energy which corrodes its targets long after it actually hits. This deals an amount of damage increasing with the dragon's age category,as shown on the table above, and also CONTINUES to deal the same damage on subsequent rounds according to the dragon's level of control over the local Time dimension. A target of the breath weapon is allowed a Reflex save for half damage, but the save must be rolled in every subesequent round that the damage targets the creature to best avoid it. Each round a creature saves, it takes only one-half the rolled amount of damage; each round the save is failed, the target takes full damage. Damage from this breath weapon can stack in subsequent rounds- for example, if a target is struck by a Wyrmling Chronovoid Dragon's breath weapon in one round, taking 256d20 damage (half on a successful save), that creature can still take 256d20 damage more from the breath weapon on subsequent rounds if it is hit again. Each round, a target of any number of Chronovoid Dragon breath.weapons is allowed to roll a Reflex save against each instance of the breath weapon that targeted it, taking half damage from a particular instance if the save succeeds. Note that most creatures (due to Evil Eye- see below) will get automatic natural 1's on these saves.

Damage Reduction (Ex): A Chronovoid Dragon's Damage Reduction is only penetrated by weapons which are timeless- that is, only weapons which were forged and empowered outside time are able to hurt them normally.

Energy Absorption (Ex): Chronovoid Dragons are healed by Acid attacks.

Energy Immunity (Ex): Chronovoid Dragons are immune to Electricity-based effects.

Energy Reflection (Ex): Chronovoid Dragons reflect Fire attacks.

Evil Eye (Su): In consuming the connections between one moment and another, a Chronovoid Dragon can manipulate the results of uncertain events its opponents try to use against it. In effect, this allows the dragon to force its opponents to always use the worst possible die roll for any given attack, spell, check, or saving throw used against the dragon or one of its attacks or abilities. However, because such manipulation drastically reduces the number of possible outcomes, it also means that a natural 1 "rolled" by any such opponent is not considered to be an automatic failure. If a natural 1 added to the opponent's bonus(es) is a failure against the Chronovoid Dragon's AC or saving throw DC, then it fails; otherwise it is treated as a success despite being a natural 1. Opponents with the "Inner Eye" Cosmic Ability (which normally allows the creature using it to always use the best possible die roll for any given situation) do not necessarily get the best or worst possible die roll for any given situation against a Chronovoid Dragon, but rather may roll the dice normally (in this case a natural 1 is still considered an automatic failure for approrpiate rolls, and a natural 20 an automatic success). All opponents within range of the dragon's Mind Warp ability are affected by Evil Eye.

Extra-Dimensional (Ex): Starting after the first round it is encountered, a Chronovoid Dragon begins to expand to fill its opponents' perception of their universe. This bestows an additional Virtual Size Category each round on the dragon.

Mind Warp (Ex): A Chronovoid Dragon destroys the integrity of memories for any being that gets too close to it, by consuming the connections between moments that being has lived through. This presence extends to 2560 feet per age category of the dragon. Creatures within this radius failing their Will saves against the listed DC go permanently insane; as their minds are no longer able to remember their own history nor to form any new memories to base actions upon.

Time Warp (Su): Chronovoid Dragons can view the connections between moments before they consume them, to see how events were supposed to turn out before their interference with them. A Chronovoid Dragon gains a foresight bonus to: armor class, attack rolls, checks (ability checks, caster level checks, skill checks, turning checks), difficulty class (for any special abilities, spell-like abilities, or spells), initiative, saving throws, and Spell Resistance. The value of this bonus is equal to 48 + 16/age category of the dragon.

Transtemporal (Su): Because Chronovoid Dragons break down the dimension of Time by their feeding process, they can not be said to precisely exist in any particular given moment. A Chronovoid Dragon always exists in a state of partial temporal indeterminacy, such that it is capable of acting against its opponents not just in "the present," but also from "the" immediate future and immediate past. A Chronovoid Dragon therefore is allowed to take three times the normal number of actions in any given round, as it assesses how to act before, during, and after its opponents act. Opponents with the Slipstream (Cosmic) ability cannot be destroyed via temporal paradox with this ability (that is, the dragon can not go back in time and kill them before they fight it), but the dragon is still allowed to take its triple actions against such opponents because its position in time is actually indeterminate rather than fixed.

Unknowing (Su): Chronovoid Dragons consume the meaningful connections between moments in time, and thereby are able to render the actions of their opponents meaningless (or at any rate less meaningful). A Chronovoid Dragon temporarily nullifies a number of Hit Dice/Levels equal to 48 + 16 per age category of the dragon. This ability extends to a range of 1600 feet, plus 160 feet per hit die of the dragon. Any being with HD or levels less than or equal to the Chronovoid Dragon's null penalty are instantly killed, with no saving throw; those who have more HD/levels treat this penalty instead as a penalty on all rolls.


Adventure Ideas:
Low-Cosmic: A region of your universe, distant from all inhabited planes and galaxies, inexplicably begins to break down in a chaotic and unpredictable fashion. Is a Chronovoid Dragon scouting your universe for later consumption, or is something else responsible?

Mid-Cosmic: A scout for a clan of Chronovoid Dragons contacts your party and offers to "take care of" some opponents you have not been able to defeat (in a permanent manner anyway) before now. But what is the dragon's real agenda, and is the bargain worth accepting, even to end a cosmic conflict?

High Cosmic: Several clans of Chronovoid Dragons arrive in your universe to begin consuming it, all at once. The only artifact capable of stopping them is in a city which was surrounded and consumed by their chaotic-time auras as one of the first things they took from your universe. Now the only hope is to go on a journey beyond all comprehensible laws and rules, through a space that has no set distance or duration, to a city which may no longer exist in any recognizable form, to find a weapon which may or may not still exist. If you fail, your universe will become a chaotic mess without rhyme or reason- but can you succeed in any meaningful way?


The dimensions in question for this beast were Time and Entropy; that was always a given. The only question was what abilities to give it. I would suggest, for DMs who use Khisanth the Ancient's "Chronos [Effect]" in their games, that the Chronovoid Dragon should use that effect (Chronos Breath at Greater level) rather than the breath weapon I gave above- but I didn't want to force that on anybody, so I wrote in the breath weapon above instead (which is essentially Greater Ultima Breath). I also took flavor hints from the science fiction novel "City At the End of Time" by Greg Bear. Hope you all find this beast useful somehow, even if as a terrible threat that never actually gets realized in game!
 
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Very cool creature (as they all have been). I like the little italicized descriptions at the beginning - helps get across the cosmic power/significance of these guys.

Is the insanity induced by nehaschimics' Mind Warp a continuous confusion effect like that of an insanity spell? And is it curable in the same way?

Thanks for the shout-out to my Chronos [Effect]!

I think Ultima is at least as good for this beast, since the repeating damage fits with the 'inexorable entropy' thing.

(Slightly off-topic maybe, but thinking of repeating damage: the Epic Bestiary Cherubim's Re-Echoing Roar does d100 damage and repeats. Since Writhing (d6/repeating) is Cosmic and Ultima (d20/repeating) is Transcendental, doesn't that make the Cherubim's an Omnific-equivalent? Which seems kind of powerful since an Elder One with no artifacts 'only' gets 120 Divine Abilities, and an Omnific's worth 200. The problem is that a d100/repeating Omnific would be incredibly weak since Time Lords have a billion+ hp; even d1000/repeating would be essentially useless against Timelords.)
 

Belzamus

Villager
You'd be surpised how fast the repeaating damage can add up, especially when you throw Transtemporal into the mix. That's even ignoring cheese like Legendary Warrior + Ultimate Weapon Spec. + Ultima Strike. (Average TL is 1,000 HD. So, BaB 1,000 x2= 2,000/5= 500 attacks per round, throw in 3WF for 1500 attacks per round, Transtemporal for 4,500 attacks per round, Perfect Ultima Strike is 1/4 HD d20, so 250d20 that repeats for 200 rounds, = 1,125,000d20 just from the first round, which doubles every round, more, if you let it resonate on Transtemporal "rounds" instead of actual rounds. Of course, your enemy'd likely be dead anywway after that many attacks).
 

paradox42

Villager
The Epic Bestiary just says the victims of Mind Warp go permanently Insane like the spell, but in my own write-ups I've tried to make the insanity more specific and relate it to the dragon's own theme somehow. That would give roleplaying hints to people actually using such a dragon in play, and also provide a means of picking an insanity to levy in games where the house rules allow for more than one type of insanity (mine doesn't, but Call of Cthulhu d20 certainly does, so I know there must be some out there who do it).

The usual methods of removing insanity (like the spell, remember) would apply in standard rules, but that doesn't mean a DM couldn't sneak in "special text" to the Mind Warp description when using one of these in a real game to circumvent such an easy solution, if desired.

And yes, using d20s could be weak, but I didn't like the look of how nasty it was with d100s so I changed it back. Certainly, though, for a beast representing both Time and Entropy, there was no way I'd go with anything but repeating damage on the breath weapon. I'd even venture to suggest that an actual Chronovoid Dragon might be likely to spend enough feats to get itself Ultima Strike or something, though that might be a bad investment since it would be 216 feats.

It's almost a pity I won't be using one of them in my own game, since the plot finally rolled around to its Final Combat at the end of last session. My divine games- both of them, since they effectively merged a few weeks ago- will be ending soon. It's been quite a ride!
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hiya paradox42 mate! :)

paradox42 said:
It's almost a pity I won't be using one of them in my own game, since the plot finally rolled around to its Final Combat at the end of last session. My divine games- both of them, since they effectively merged a few weeks ago- will be ending soon. It's been quite a ride!
Will you be going out with a big bang?
 

paradox42

Villager
Will you be going out with a big bang?
The game will feature one big combat with an army of gods arrayed against a foe that the PCs for once have no data on other than its appearance and the fact that it's originally from the Eternal Realm- their own probing of it last session caused the Egg it was growing within to "hatch" early, and it's extremely upset about that. It's possible, though probably not likely, that the Final Combat will take more than one session to resolve.

The reason they were so interested in the Egg was that they discovered that their Demiurge, their Reality, is actually supposed to have seven dimensions instead of just six- which has left a hole that among other things led Thought to go insane with a split personality in an apparent subconscious attempt to fill it. They've seen evidence that a Seventh First One whom they still have no clues about is due to arise soon, if they can make room for it, and that this rise is somehow tied in to the whole waking-Demiurge incident. Which is due to happen about 1 minute into the future, in game time, from the point they're at now (with the Egg having just shattered to release its irate Occupant). This all ties in with the Egg, because they got confirmation very recently that the Egg and its Occupant are somehow preventing the growth of the Demiurge in this seventh dimension, preventing the rise of the Seventh First One, and thereby preventing the Demiurge from growing properly and becoming an acceptable (and accepted) member of Eternal society.

In other words, they learned that the Demiurge's nasty nature is at least partly due to a sort of universe-level "birth defect" that resulted from being infested with this parasite in the Egg, which they have now released into the Reality they know. Their hope is that by killing it, or at least removing it, they can give the Demiurge the room and energy to grow that it's always lacked, and bring on the rise of the Seventh, which will eventually lead to a completion of the Demiurge's proper growth and a more benign Reality.

Juxtaposed with this event is the opening of the Final Gate, the portal to the higher dimensions (which they've long called "the Eternal Realm"), which was the original purpose behind a unique breed of spellcaster arising on my game world over 4000 years before the present game date- and the motivation for the civilization which first used this spellcasting to destroy itself in one spectacular ritual which caused the Plane of Shadow to expand from a demiplane into a full plane (as the effect that was commonly known about it, anyway).

The PCs now know that this type of spellcasting derives its power directly from the Demiurge itself, through "Sources" which are in fact avatars of the Demiurge constantly locked into a barely-balanced equilibrium in one lonely layer of the Far Realm, sort of like the three goddesses in Final Fantasy VI (for those who've played that game). The goal of the beings who discovered and first used these Sources was always to expand the Shadow Plane (which they call the Bridge Plane) in such a manner as to reach a special spot deep within the Far Realm, where they could complete a Ritual of Opening that would open a portal to That Which Is Beyond the Far Realm. They didn't understand precisely what that meant, just that being the explorers they were they wanted to go there; however, over the course of many years of playing and campaign time the PCs have learned that this Final Gate will actually lead to the Eternal Realm. Furthermore, the Ritual of Opening itself was originally devised apparently by Fate/Aditi herself, the First One most closely linked with the Prime Planes, and is nothing less than her attempt to create an escape hatch if the Demiurge should wake up and be impossible to placate or hold.

The Ritual of Opening, due to the timing on various planes and synchronization with the great Ring formed of braided cosmic string that's in the PCs' own universe, is due to complete and open the Final Gate at the same moment the Demiurge awakes; therefore the PCs have that great event set against their present predicament as well- and even with access to time travel effects they're feeling pressed for time. The hope is that once the Final Gate is open, they'll be able to get help from sympathetic Eternals on the other side who might be able to fix the problems- stop the Demiurge from destroying everything- that sort of thing.

This is all at the culmination of just under 10 years of gaming- one PC (now a DR 37 deity with 999 hit dice and essentially just one step below Sidereal, as are all the PCs except for those who are instead DR 48) was actually in the very first session I ran back in April of 2001, at 1st level. He's been played from 1st level all the way up to where he now is. And yes, I advanced them by leaps and bounds (as far as HD go) in the divine games, but it's still been one PC played for nearly a decade of weekly gaming. Other PCs haven't gone for quite that long, but they've all been going since level 8 or so at the latest, with two exceptions who joined back around level 20. It's been quite a ride no matter how you look at it.

For my part, this is all building up to a plot I first started thinking about 25 years ago, when I first came up with game rules to describe what existed beyond godhood. Having the IH rules (at least, what I did have of them ;)), which so neatly matched my own decades-old notions in so many ways, allowed me to finally make it happen in a real game. It's the last story I have yet to tell, and all players agreed that once the Final Combat is over, we'll be moving on to epilogues and denouement for all characters. Even if we start a new game that takes place after this one, in the same Reality/setting, it won't be with these characters present except as historical figures or objects of worship.

Decide for yourself whether this constitutes a "big bang."
 
Wow.... awesome.

In other words, they learned that the Demiurge's nasty nature is at least partly due to a sort of universe-level "birth defect" that resulted from being infested with this parasite in the Egg
Will you be posting the stats for this cosmic parasite after the game is over?

synchronization with the great Ring formed of braided cosmic string that's in the PCs' own universe
Is this inspired by the Ring from Stephen Baxter's Xeelee series? IIRC that was a giant gateway made of cosmic string that was an escape-hatch from the universe.

This is all at the culmination of just under 10 years of gaming- one PC (now a DR 37 deity with 999 hit dice and essentially just one step below Sidereal, as are all the PCs except for those who are instead DR 48)
Clearly there's a lot of house rules involved, as normally divine rank 24 is Elder One, starting Siderealhood. Also IIRC Ascension says that 999+ HD is reserved for Time Lords+. Will we get to see these house rules after the game has been concluded? I for one would be very interested.

(How many HD does a full sidereal have in your game? How about *shudder* an Eternal?)

He's been played from 1st level all the way up to where he now is.
That's incredible, wow. Possibly a record. Probably a record.
 

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