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Message: <blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5467014" data-attributes="member: 35909">How much do you like having dex to AC? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I mean, Insightful is only +2 damage for you...  Maybe it is more worth it, the thing with Rogue is that you're not just getting UD, you're also getting penetrating strike and 4 more skill points per level.  Hmm...taking rogue later may actually be a good idea though, to top off on rogue class skills when the max ranks are higher (ie, at ECL 4, you can only have 7 ranks in UMD, but at ECL 8 you can pump it up to 11 ranks, and if you're doing it outside of the rogue class, you're paying double).  Regarding palm throw...I was actually thinking for the build of getting trip shot first and spending the earlier levels relying on skills and tripping over damage dealing, since until daring outlaw, craven, and assassin's stance kick in, you're only getting 2d6 SA and with palm throw SA basically IS your damage.  Again, your way might be better, though.If you really wanted to break the game, you wouldn't be making  thrower.  There is literally nothing you can do that will be ridiculously overpowered.  Really, a lot of this optimization is just to make your combat method viable...  You may need to multiclass a bunch, and the maneuver system is a little tricky to learn (no where near as complicated as the system they have for swapping maneuvers at level 4+ in the classes, though, be glad that won't be in your build!).Darts:+Twice the range of daggers+Lesser weight; might be a factor when you're keeping 20+ at a time out of your extradimensional travelling bag for use+1/4 the price; completely irrelevant by level 2 or 3Daggers:+Higher threat range, 19-20+Flexibility of being used in melee or at range without penalty+Flexibility of slashing OR piercing damage; it is one of the few ranged slashing weapons in the game+Availability; as you inquired, they are very common, you will likely find far more magical daggers than darts+Are a Shadow Hand weapon, so you can get free weapon focus with it and apply Dex to damage with Shadow Blade feat+Not very important, but gets a +2 bonus to hide on your person w/ Sleight of HandSo, yeah.  Daggers are the generally better weapon, though at low levels for purely throwing, keeping a bunch of darts is certainly not a bad idea.  Also do note that SA is limited to 30 ft range, so the range advantage is also minimal (again, for 2000 gp, gauntlets of extended range will double those increments).Basically it's just simple convenience.  You can do melee, ranged, slashing, or piercing all with the same awesome little weapon, so it becomes handy to put things like Weapon Focus towards the dagger.  The damage is low, but you're relying on SA and Int for most of your damage anyway.  And dagger is only 1 lower damage on average than rapier or shortsword.As long as they're mundane, it's inexpensive.  That's the problem with throwing builds w/o Bloodstorm Blade (to re-use the same weapon for a full thrown attack), though.  It never becomes affordable or feasible to have a bunch of even just +1 weapons to chuck around, so DR/magic really screws you.  Heward's Haversack and bags of holding are both cheap options to store your many weapons.  You only need to keep like 4-5 rounds of full attacks' worth on your immediate person going into a fight, IMO.  For items to produce weapons for you, I named them, both from MIC.  Gloves of Endless Javelins, and Gauntlet of Infinite Blades.  Former costs more, gives javelins (can't palm throw AND not a SH weapon!), and the javelins vanish upon use.  But, it's a free action to produce one, so you can full attack with them, and they are all +1 weapons (suck it, DR/magic!).  Latter is cheaper, gives daggers (yay!), and the daggers last for 3 rounds after being created.  But, they aren't magical (you can grant the produced dagger magic properties a few times/day) and it's a swift to activate, so you can only get one dagger per round.For your Arcane Stunt, I highly recommend Blur over Expeditious Retreat.  It also saves your ass, screws over rival rogues, arguably gives you the ability to hide (since it gives concealment, you'd still need to create a diversion to hide, though), and is less simple to duplicate via UMD.  Expeditious Retreat is a level 1 spell that lasts min/level, so you can get the benefit as a cheap wand/scroll.Acrobatic Backstab is a trap.  Requires a moderately high level to get, need to make a DC 25+ check just to use it, and it's only good for one melee SA.  Unless your party is completely disfunctional, you should be able to just DC 15 tumble around an enemy and get into a flank with an ally just fine for your one SA.  Even if the party's all casters with no melee, have them cast Summon Flanking Buddy 1.  Again, Swordsage helps here, there's a level 1 Desert Wind maneuver called Distracting Ember.  Swift action to use, creates a flanking buddy for one round, so you can actually get a FULL attack off.</blockquote>

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