D&D 3E/3.5 3.5E - Using spell slots to substitute for material/XP components

[victorysaber]

I couldn't find any rules that allow you to substitute spell slots for material/XP components. I know there's a feat/rule that allows you to spend XP in lieu of material components (costs 1 XP for every 5 gp value of the component).

So I'm thinking of coming up with a feat for it.


Substitute Material Components
Prerequisites: Eschew Materials
Benefit: You may substitute spell slots in lieu of material components. A spell slot's gp value is worth the square of its level, times 250 (spell level x spell level x 250). You many only substitute one spell slot at a time, and the gp value of the spell slot must be equal to or greater than the material component's gp value.


Substitute XP Components
Prerequisites: Eschew Materials
Benefit: You may substitute spell slots in lieu of XP components. A spell slot's XP value is worth the square of its level, times 50 (spell level x spell level x 50). You many only substitute one spell slot at a time, and the XP value of the spell slot must be equal to or greater than the material component's XP value.


I'm contemplating if the value of the spell slots are too little. At the moment, you need a 10th level spell slot to be able to account for Wish's XP components. I don't know it if makes sense, that you need to be able to use a higher level spell slot to account for a lower level spell's components.


Should I change the gp cost to (spell level^2 x 500) and the XP cost to (spell level^2 x 100) instead? Or should the values be 375/75? I'm using the 1 XP = 5 gp model, evidently.

 

[Celebrim]

Personally, I think that these numbers are too high - not too low. Most spells that have XP costs have them for a pretty good reason IMO. I don't think you can easily balance trading a very short term highly renewable resource like a spell slot for a long term resource like a spell requiring an XP expenditure.

And you are actually pushing the player toward a '15 minute adventuring day'.

I've long wanted a robust 'sacrifice' system for reducing XP costs of spells or empowering ritual magic, but really, a spell slot is a tiny sacrifice for a player in most cases. Legitimate sacrifices should carry higher risks and costs in terms of invested time and energy.

 

[Meatboy]

Eh it probably won't work too well for the reasons celebrim stated. When I read the title I was picturing more losing a spell slot permanently. You know sacrificing some of your magical essence to power an artifact of power. Because that sounds pretty cool. Though I wouldn't ask people to spend feats on top of that.

 

[victorysaber]

Hm. So would the "spend 1 XP for every 5 gp value of the material component" model work better than giving up spell slots?

 

[victorysaber]

Would it be better if it were a Metamagic Feat?


Independent Spell [Metamagic]

Benefit: You can alter a spell with a material or XP component, so that it can be cast without those components.
An independent spell that used to have a material component uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
An independent spell that used to have an XP component uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.
An independent spell that used to have an XP component and a material component uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell's actual level.

 

[Sadrik]

I use these house rules feel free to mine them for ideas...

Casters can spend gold instead of needing to find a specific component (pearl dust).
Casters can ignore the gold cost of spells by paying 1/25 the gold cost as an XP cost.
Casters can make any spell with an XP cost a ritual by reducing the XP cost by ten for each hour in ritual.

 

[Verdande]

I'd probably rethink requiring anything to have an XP cost at all. I can't find the document off of the top of my head, but the basic problem is that you're trading long-term effectiveness for power now, and there's no guarantee that your character will be around to pay for it.

Personally, I'd probably go with a long-lasting decay of some sort of stat, maybe Constitution. It'd come back, eventually, but it'd take time and it would only come back on its own. That way, the more powerful magic is still rare and powerful, and it has a very real effect on casters. Sure, you could cast Wish and get the entire world in the palm of your hands, but is it worth (for example) halving your Constituition?

YMMV, but I've always found that XP costs are too easily looked over, whereas stat drain always hurts.

 

[Sylrae]

Hm. So would the "spend 1 XP for every 5 gp value of the material component" model work better than giving up spell slots?

The PF Spell Conversion in reverse?

 

[Sepulchrave II]

It depends on which resources in your game are emphasized, and how much attention you pay to tracking time. And how religiously you track XP. There's never going to be an easy economy between XP, gp and spell level or metamagic.

I would look instead at each spell which currently demands an XP component (there aren't so many), and devise a suitable alternative penalty based on your own judgment. It's much easier than groping for a rule which will apply evenly across the board.

If there's lots of down time in your game, then - as Celebrim said - losing a 2nd-level daily slot to power a limited wish is a good deal.

At epic levels, the following economy is implied:

1 level of metamagic = 200xp = 2d6 Backlash = 5000gp

You can also lengthen the casting time of the spell. Making a standard action a full round spell might be worth 200xp. Lengthening it to a day might be worth 2000xp - depending on the spell itself.

Now choose which elements of that economy you (not your players) want to apply to a particular spell; be judicious in your choices. I recommend if you use backlash, make it only recoverable by natural rest (not magical healing) - if time is a valuable resource in your campaign...

e.g. look at Vision. The advantage that it has over legend lore is that it's fast to cast. Instead of costing 100XP let it be physically traumatic and do 1d6 points of damage which can only be recovered through natural rest.