[3.5E] Weapon Familiarity!

[Knightfall]

Re: Re: Re: Waraxe not Dwarven Enough...

That's what I mean about giving automatic weapon proficiencies, like the elf. If all thri-kreen are taught with those weapons since childhood, then they should have them ... automatically.

I agree. if a dwarf grew up in the halls of his clan then he should get access to the urgosh. A dwarf that grows up somewhere else shouldn't know what an urgosh is.

Also, we need to remember that Weapon Familiarity ONLY makes the weapon a Martial Weapon for dwarves. It DOES NOT give that weapon to a dwarf PC for free unless their character class has access to martial weapons. (Yes, I know people love playing dwarven warriors 99.9% of the time but still, a dwarven wizard will HAVE to use a feat to get access to an urgosh, which to me, makes sense.)

Of course, a DM has the right to rule zero Weapon Familiarity out if he or she so chooses.

Later,

KF72

 

[John Smallberries]

Whopee. A dwarf fighter gets two more points of damage!

For reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with game balance, certain races have their damage potential ramped up.

Whoopee indeed.

 

[hong]

To me the whole Weapon Familiarity bit reeks of the dumbing down of D&D.

No, no, no. It's _metagaming_.

Er, no, hang on, that's not right. It's _treating it like a computer game_.

Er, no, hang on, that's not right. It's _rollplaying, not roleplaying_.

Er, no, hang on, that's not right. It's _pandering to the masses_.

Er, no, hang on, that's not right. It's _lowest common denominator_.

Er, no, hang on, that's not right. It's _munchkin_.

Yes! That must be it. Because as we all know, "munchkin" == "anything I don't like".


Hong "so, did I miss out any?" Ooi

 

[MerricB]

You missed out on "toilet", hong.

You know, when I first heard about the Dwarven Waraxe becoming a martial weapon for dwarves I thought, "What a mistake!"

Then I thought again.

Basically, it allows a dwarf to use a weapon that does slightly more damage than the standard for a human. The dwarven waraxe with a x3 critical rather than 19-20/x2 for the bastard sword might even be the inferior weapon - actually, I would say it is.

Does anyone doubt that the Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe is one of the most useless proficiencies? Given a choice beween it or Weapon Focus, I know what I'd choose - and when you consider some of the feat chains, it's generally better to use a standard battleaxe or longsword and get a feat that does something else.

Let's call EWP BS/DWA to be half a feat at most.

So, this change is giving the dwarf a set half-feat. Basically just another advantage to playing a dwarf... and even with this bonus, I'd still prefer to play a human fighter.

I believe that this Weapon Familiarity is indeed just part of the standard group of racial advantages, no more advantageous to a dwarf than darkvision is - and probably less so!

Cheers!

 

[Fenes 2]

Oh lord, another person grousing about the supposedly-OTT thinblade. In truth, it follows a standard convention for an exotic weapon: take a martial or simple weapon and upgrade it by one step at the cost of a feat. In this case, the thinblade can either be seen as a rapier with its damage die increased by one die-type (which is the difference between a battleaxe and a waraxe), or as a longsword with its threat range increased by one number (same as the difference between a dagger and a kukri).

Now, granted, this ill-conceived racial Weapon Familiarity nonsense takes a sledgehammer to the whole concept behind exotic weapons by giving superior weapons away for bupkus, but that's not a problem specifically with the thinblade. The same is true of the waraxe.

I have nothing against a superiour exotic weapon - I am against yet another uber elven weapon. Call it a thinblade and I am fine with it - call it an elven thinblade, and worse, give it to elven fighters rangers etc. for free, and I will oppose it.

I have sufferred through 2E's uber-elven-anythings, and will not go through that again, not in my games.

As I have stated before, as long as there is no human using a bastard sword one handed in my game, I am fine with a dwarf using a dwarven waraxe oine-handed for free - but I would give the human weapon familiarity with bastard sword, one handed for free in such a campaign.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

My best Guess...

Half Elf & Half Orc - Bastard Sword.

Something tells me that since they are likely conceived and born out of wedlock, that the Bastard sword fits their less then honorable heritage.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Ranger REG]

Am the only one who doesn't care for weapon famailieraty???

Obviously you didn't read my post above yours.

But to summarize, I'm not a fan of Weapon Familiarity.

 

[Felon]

Basically, it allows a dwarf to use a weapon that does slightly more damage than the standard for a human.

...for no appreciable reason, and that's the real goat-getter. The issue isn't whether the waraxe represents a radical upgrade in a warrior's fighting ability; as stated previously, exotic weapons are generally a one-step upgrade from a standard weapon. Which is perfectly in keeping with the type of bonuses you should expect to get from a feat.

The dwarven waraxe with a x3 critical rather than 19-20/x2 for the bastard sword might even be the inferior weapon - actually, I would say it is.

One weapon crits more often, the other does more damage when it crits. The math has been done, and word is they roughly average their output over time. My dwarf loves his waraxe, particualrly when he's doing a Power Critical with it.

Does anyone doubt that the Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe is one of the most useless proficiencies?

Sure, having played bastard sword and waraxe-wielding fighters, I'd dispute. What are you basing your statement on exactly?

Given a choice beween it or Weapon Focus, I know what I'd choose

OK, so you've turned your nose up at a slight improvement to damage for an even more slight improvement to attack bonus. While you're at it, why not forsake Weapon Focus for Dodge, so you can get a slight improvement to AC? Notice a pattern?

And when you consider some of the feat chains, it's generally better to use a standard battleaxe or longsword and get a feat that does something else.

That is true, which is why exotic weapons are regarded as the trademark of fighters, who have the feats to spare. It irks my dwarf fighter to no ends for him to think that some clumsy, crude, dumbass barbarian dwarf can wield an urghosh or waraxe as easily as it can use a club.

Let's call EWP BS/DWA to be half a feat at most.

Again, this sounds like it's not based on "giving it some thought" so much as your eyeballing the weapons and turning your nose up at them rather arbitrarily.

So, this change is giving the dwarf a set half-feat. Basically just another advantage to playing a dwarf

Putting aside your estimation of waraxe proficiency as a "half-feat" aside (along with your rather puzzling assumption that your estimation would be accepted without question), the dwarf already has a healthy set of racial attributes that lend itself very well to its role as a fighter. Do you disagree? Does the dwarf need an extra boost to be made more appealing?

If your sole contention is simply "it's not a big deal", then why evem bother to disagree with people who say they shouldn't get it?

 

[Felon]

(rant mode: ON!)
I can't believe people are getting their undies in a bundie over this.

There's nothing like a good rant...and this is nothing like a good rant

They're freakin' WEAPONS. They'll be the most powerful thing the party posessess for about 4-5 levels, and then they'll be taking a back seat to the wizard.

This is the line that really jumped out at me. Are you high? Seriously, maybe just a little? I mean, you gotta be smoking something to think fighters can't keep pace with wizards on damage. When I DM, it ain't the wizards that routinely make puree out of the monsters.

Damage is almost a nul factor, here. Not entirely, but almost.....So dwarves can take a waraxe now? Guess what, the rule was implemented in the last game, and nobody thought it made the dwarf too powerful.....Come on, people, you can't seriously herald *this* as the destruction of balance amongst the game?....Whopee. A dwarf fighter gets two more points of damage!

Apparently, there's some sort of conception in some people's minds that if there is an extensive discussion on a game mechanics issue, then that amounts to heralding the destruction of the balanced game continuum. Or conversely, any issue that doesn't shatter that continuum simply isn't worth discussing. Wrong on both counts.

The Weapon Familiarity issue isn't a problem of apocalyptic proportions. I seriously doubt that dwarves will transformed into uber-munchkins (any more than they may be now, anyway) thanks to Weapon Familiarity...It is, however, a fairly pointles, ill-conceived, and downright lameass idea.

 

[Mercule]

thinblade smimblade . . .

elves should get some sort of elven longbow . . .

these guys spend centuries in the forest around wood, and far far away from forges...

IMC, Elves are the only people with the native tech and resources to make the longbow. Kinda like the Welsh were for a time. I'm just trying to figure out how long I can keep that balance before some smart human reverse-engineers the longbow.