+3 Defender - Usage

[Infiniti2000]

I'd rather just go with parrying and ignore the rest

If you allow such things, who wouldn't get parrying weapons? That is horribly underpriced.

 

[IcyCool]

If you allow such things, who wouldn't get parrying weapons? That is horribly underpriced.

Well, lots of people allow Core. Last I heard (although it isn't in my game), the XPH is core. 8,000gp for a +1 to AC, ok. 8,000gp for a +1 to AC and a +1 to all saves? I'm not so sure. A luckstone is 20,000gp.

 

[Scion]

If you allow such things, who wouldn't get parrying weapons? That is horribly underpriced.

Nah, it isnt that bad.

Defender however is extremely 'overpriced'

Well, lots of people allow Core. Last I heard (although it isn't in my game), the XPH is core. 8,000gp for a +1 to AC, ok. 8,000gp for a +1 to AC and a +1 to all saves? I'm not so sure. A luckstone is 20,000gp.

And the luckstone applies to a large amounts of different things, is slotless, and doesnt have the limitation of needing to be held in your hand to work

Stone of Good Luck (Luckstone): This stone is typically a bit of rough polished agate or some similar mineral. Its possessor gains a +1 luck bonus on saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks.
Faint evocation; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, divine favor; Price 20,000 gp.

+1 to saves when wieldedvs +1 to saves all of the time
+1 to ac when wielded vs none
none vs +1 to all ability checks
none vs +1 to all skill checks

The restrictions and lesser use vs the other.


Still though, given the choice of just about 'anything' that boosts AC vs defender I would choose the other.

Defender.. ew.

Maybe if it was just a small, flat cost it would be worth it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If you allow such things, who wouldn't get parrying weapons? That is horribly underpriced.

AC bonus (Other): Bonus squared x 2,500 gp
Save bonus (Other): Bonus squared x 2,000 gp

Parrying: +1 Insight to AC & Saves

Additional ability charge on a "slotted" item: x1.5

+1 Insight to AC: 1^2 * 2,500 gp = 2,500 gp * 1.5 = 3,750
+1 Insight to Saves: 1^2 * 2,000 gp = 2,000 gp * 1.5 = 3,000

Total: 6,750

If anything, 8,000 gp might be a little overpriced for what you get.

 

[Scion]

AC bonus (Other): Bonus squared x 2,500 gp
Save bonus (Other): Bonus squared x 2,000 gp

Parrying: +1 Insight to AC & Saves

Additional ability charge on a "slotted" item: x1.5

+1 Insight to AC: 1^2 * 2,500 gp = 2,500 gp * 1.5 = 3,750
+1 Insight to Saves: 1^2 * 2,000 gp = 2,000 gp * 1.5 = 3,000

Total: 6,750

If anything, 8,000 gp might be a little overpriced for what you get.

hmm..

I'll have to think about this for my games.

Thanks for the math

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well, lots of people allow Core. Last I heard (although it isn't in my game), the XPH is core.

XPH is not core, no matter what you heard. Only the MM, PH, and DMG are core. That's not exactly what I mean, though. Even if I allowed the EPH (note that even the SRD calls it supplemental), I would not allow the parrying.

(calculations snipped)
If anything, 8,000 gp might be a little overpriced for what you get.

Those calculations are faulty because it's a weapon. Since it's a weapon, then it can't (by core RAW at least) be priced by a means different than a market modifier. So, the pricing scheme it uses itself is invalid. But, assuming you were to convert it to +1 (minimum +6000gp) or +2 (minimum +10000), it would be more reasonable, strictly because it would increase the cost of the weapon should you want anything else on it. As is, there's absolutely no downside to this item, and it completely eliminates the desire to obtain other special abilities like enhancement.

Even so, treating the weapon as a wondrous item and allowing these enhancements at +8000 (whether it's a non-magical weapon or a weapon with a +10 equivalent), the calculations I believe are incorrect. Why isn't there an additional uncustomary space limitation penalty? Add +50% to that and you get more than 8000, but still I'd agree it's not totally out of whack. The real problem I have is with a static price for a weapon special ability.

 

[Scion]

XPH is not core

I treat it as core personally.

As is, there's absolutely no downside to this item

Such as the 8k price tag or needing to have it in hand to get its bonus at all?

The real problem I have is with a static price for a weapon special ability.

Oddly enough, I think there should be 'more' emphasis on flat cost abilities. Not everything can be neatly fit into the +enhancement spectrum.


Take defending for example. At +1 it is the lowest that you can possibly charge in that system and yet it is still overpriced no matter how you look at it. Unless of course you can find a way to break it (gain its benefit without having to pay any penalty at all).

There are issues on both sides, but personally I really like the flat cost abilities

 

[Infiniti2000]

No downside compared to say, defending, which is going to be much more expensive in the long run.

Oddly enough, I think there should be 'more' emphasis on flat cost abilities. Not everything can be neatly fit into the +enhancement spectrum.

That would be a reasonable approach, I agree, but to do so properly IMO, you'd need to go through all of the DMG special abilities and possibly reprice those. As it is, though, flat cost abilities wreak havoc with the existing DMG special abilities. This is clearly evident with respect to defending and parrying, case in point.

 

[blargney the second]

I get te impression the Parrying ability to improve saving throws only works against incoming psionic powers. That's potentially very limiting in use.

-blarg

 

[Scratched_back]

Okay guys, think we've become a little sidetracked here. I'm not interested in a Defender versus anything because my DM put in a Defender and that's that.

I was just interested in the logistics of using said Defender, that's all. It seems to be pretty much split down the middle so far too. Some people would let the bonus apply constantly (well, if held) other want it swung before this applies.

Any other points of view?