3.ER -- Manyshot? !

[Zad]

I just ran the numbers against my arcane archer. The cumulative bonus makes a lot of sense - manyshot was a bit overpowered before and now it's more balanced. It actually makes it more beneficial to take the full attack action (which it probably should be) but still is quite workable if you can't take the full attack.

This is hardly a surprise - it's exactly what Monte said when the ELH was released - that manyshot was a little too much and it shoudl probably have been changed to be... surprise exactly what that article says.

Frankly I had been expecting this change in errata.

 

[Petrosian]

If manyshot is Ok how about...

******************
MANY SWING...

Insert various prereq's...

With this feat as a standard action you can take as many swings as your iterative attacks would have allowed if you had the Full attack plus one. You take penalties for these swings just like with many shot. For various restrictions on sneaks and such, see many shot.

*****************

To me the deal with many shot is simple, it is the first feat to change the "only one attack unless full attack thing.

If you plan for feats to allow that general restriction to be bypassed as simple tactical issues (as opposed to physical considerations like pounce/rake things) then it should NOT be just an archery issue.

IMO, if this is just an archery feat with no matching melee feat then it is imbalancing. If both exist, i remain dubious as to their overall benefit to the game, but i dont expect them to be too imbalancing, rather definitely power level raising.

 

[hong]

If manyshot is Ok how about...

******************
MANY SWING...

Insert various prereq's...

With this feat as a standard action you can take as many swings as your iterative attacks would have allowed if you had the Full attack plus one. You take penalties for these swings just like with many shot. For various restrictions on sneaks and such, see many shot.

*****************

To me the deal with many shot is simple, it is the first feat to change the "only one attack unless full attack thing.

HAW HAW!!1! Yet AGAIN I demonstrate my fillet-fu as applied to D&D sacred cows!

The Rapid Strike feat I and Comrade Raoul made up just three months ago specifically allows a melee fighter to make two attacks with a standard action, the second attack being at a -5 penalty. In fact, it's just the iaijutsu master's One Strike, Two Cuts ability turned into a feat.

 

[Zad]

I think the counterbalance is found in Power attack. Melee combattants, if making one attack, can do a LOT of damage with that attack by using power attack. So an archer would fire a few shots doing the usual damage each, where the melee would make a single, more devastating swing.

 

[DonAdam]

Except that power attack only gives you as much of a bonus as you take for the penalty.

This way, you get strength mods, magic (including those obnoxious flaming arrows), and dice added.

I'll be passing on this feat. Archers are too good already.

I will substitute it with a feat that is a version of power attack for any dex-based attack.

 

[IceBear]

One thing to keep in mind is that we're looking at this in a vacuum. It's possible, for example, that they've changed how bows and arrow enchantments stack in 3.5 or they've added new abilities to melee fighters, etc.

They've already hinted that "we" (the collective we of D&D forums) have already torn pre-released stuff apart and gotten so upset over it because we haven't seen the complete ruleset that I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for now

IceBear

 

[Celebrim]

Well, first of all, before I complain, and lest we forget, let me say this...

THIS IS A WHOLE H3LL OF ALOT BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL MULTISHOT!

That said, I don't think that the penalty is steep enough at high levels. A -8 penalty isn't usually that big of a deal to a reasonably high level reasonably maximized archer against the vast majority of targets given that you probably have an attack bonus of above 30. Archers have no problem finding extra attack bonuses. Moreover, this feat means that on many occassions the archers standard attack action is more effective than his full attack action. A high level archer has the following full attack penalties -0/-5/-10/-15. I can think of many cases where I'd much rather accept -8/-8/-8/-8 as a penalty, and take a move action. First, the lack of additional critical hits is not a penalty against anything immune to critical hits. Second, if a -8 penalty results in a number close to 20, I'm probably going to do more damage multishotting than I am accepting a -10 and a -15 penalty for my third and forth shots. The feat actually implies that it is EASIER to shoot four arrows from a bow at the same time than it is to shoot four arrows in succession.

At the very least, the penalty for shooting arrows ought to be as harsh as the penalty for shooting your last arrow. So I would change the feat to -5 penalty cumulative per extra arrow. Even so, this would _still_ be a useful feat because it allows you to make multiple attacks when normally you could only make one and there would still be many times you'd want to do that even at a -15 penalty to hit.

 

[Andor]

Tactics...

And no one thinks it's worth mentioning that the feat only works from within the range of a charge & sunder?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

unless they have the aforementioned manyswing this isn't in my game.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Re: Tactics...

And no one thinks it's worth mentioning that the feat only works from within the range of a charge & sunder?

No, not really. Considering the number of times I've seen an archer with a clear line to a target so he/she could be charged that fairly small limitation is almost meaningless.

Now if you play a game in the wide open plains a lot you might see this feat used less in favor of a full attack, especially with mounted archery. But in my more city based games(and forest/dungeon style) people rarely encounter others at less than charge distance. Though many times they encoutner others in elevated positions which would make a charge impossible.