3.x ed.--While Playing My 15th Level Wizard Last Night, I Realized Something...

[der_kluge]

There's a very obvious meta-game reason for this. That's not what the game is for.

You have to trace D&D back to its roots - a role-playing variation on a wargame simulation. All the original spells simulated things like musket fire and cannon fire, and other various and sundry ways to blow up, destroy, and maim people.

The other obvious problem is that most wizards aren't going to get to 18th level having never fought a whole slew of monsters. 13 encounters x 17, to be exact (or at least nearly so). So, you'd need rules to actually advance a guy from 1st to 18th by virtue of completing goals, or solving problems, or deflowering virgins or something like that. Something that doesn't require blowing people up, destroying, or maiming them.

Such a game would be boring.

Or, at least highly different from D&D.

I recall a brief period of time when I played an elven pacifist in 2nd edition. After just a few combat encounters, I started to feel like an ass because I couldn't really help my teammates. So much for that idea.

 

[Andor]

There's a very obvious meta-game reason for this. That's not what the game is for.

You have to trace D&D back to its roots - a role-playing variation on a wargame simulation. All the original spells simulated things like musket fire and cannon fire, and other various and sundry ways to blow up, destroy, and maim people.

The other obvious problem is that most wizards aren't going to get to 18th level having never fought a whole slew of monsters.

Right, that's why so many of our top physicists also moonlight as mercenaries.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

so for the past day i went thru all the books i have, electronic and otherwise, and compiled a big list of all the spells i would like to eventually research that have nothing to do with adventuring fighting and dungeoneering. it took a while, but i found a bunch of them. monte cook's stuff has a lot of decent spells. i will eventually have my wizard take the time to research them.

Can you post the list? It'd be interesting to see.

The key thing from my point of view is that I'd want there to be spells that help investigate something, but not that hand it to you on a platter. The Object Loresight (and Object Reading which it is based off of) is awfully specific and detailed. I prefer an approach that leaves more up to the players.

 

[roguerouge]

Um, don't you ever give PCs XP for achieving a role playing objective or accomplishing something with their skills? If you do, and this issue really matters to you, isn't it reasonable to assume that these commoners and experts are similarly achieving role playing objectives and accomplishing things with their skills?

 

[Wolfwood2]

Remember, the 3e philosophy is that "These rules are how the world functions". NPCs operate the same way as PCs do. At least, that's what the 3e fans I've heard on these boards say: the rules are the world's physics.

I much prefer the "Everything not involved in the PCs works the way I need it to work because I'm the DM and it fits the situation."

That idea is/was very much up for debate. My view is that experience points are a metagame conceit for tracking how fast player characters increase in ability. Even the xp awards in the DMG are only suggested awards. A DM is free to halve them, double them, or just inform the players that "your PCs level up now" whenever it seems dramatically appropriate. Even in magic item creation, PCs don't have an in-game recognizable concept that they're losing anything other than time and materials to make items.

Or in other words, the rules of the world function the same way for PCs as for NPCs, but the rules of the game are not always the rules of the world. Sometimes the rules of the game are metagame rules for the game rather than the world.

 

[roguerouge]

M
Here's the list I'd give them: These are spells known; not a lot of them, since he's not out finding them as treasure or taking spellbooks from defeated foes.

1st - Alarm, Hold Portal, Identify, Comprehend Languages, Sleep, Silent IMage, Disguise Self, Cause Fear, Erase, Feather Fall.
2nd - Arcane Lock, Detect Thoughts, Locate Object, Continual Flame, Darkness, Knock, Darkvision.
3rd - Dispel Magic, Phantom Steed, Arcane Sight, Tongues, Daylight, Water Breathing, Fly.
4rth - Remove Curse, Scrying, Detect Scrying, Stone Shape, Locate Creature
5th - Break Enchantment, Mages Private Sanctum, Secret Chest, Fabricate, Permanancy
6th - Dispel Magic Greater, True Seeing, Legend Lore, Control Water, Disinteregrate
7th - Banishment, Teleport Greater, Teleport Object, Vision, Control Weather
8th - Protection from Spells, Discern location, Antipathy, Prying Eyes Greater
9th - Wish

Great list! Mind if I add a few?

0: Prestidigitation, Light, Amanuensis (copies a text), Stick (for up to 5 lb object), Silent Portal (silences a window or door, for when you don't want hear your neighbors), ghost sound (just too good at entertaining the kiddies), Mending.

1: Unseen Servant, Mount, Charm Person (really, just essential), Appraising Touch (+10 to skill), Instant locksmith (I forgot my keys!), Instant search (I can't find my keys!), Spontaneous Search, Distract (so... many... uses!), Serene Visage (insight bonus to bluff), Mage Hand greater (40 lbs, med. range), Slow burn (fires burn 2x as long, for the mage who dislikes chopping fire wood), Remove Scent (especially important in faux Euro middle ages kingdoms), Low-Light Vision (for studying by candle light)

2: Baleful Transposition (Young man, you come to your mother, right now!), Force Ladder (an invisible ladder), Speak to Allies (for making snarky commentary about your dinner companions to your wife without being overheard), Swim.

3: Silent Stilled Charm Person, Servant Horde (2d6+level unseen servants), lesser telepathic bond (sort of a souped-up Speak to Allies for this guy), Regal Procession (many Mounts), Circle Dance (for anxious parents or wizards with curious familiars), Suspended Silence (object can be commanded to create silence)

4: Force Chest (never again worry that your kids will get their hands on the wand you keep to defend your home), Voice of the Dragon (+10 bluff, intimidate, diplomacy, one suggestion).

 

[Voadam]

I love me some Hallowfaust. That was one of my all time favorite 3e books. I do hope that 20 cubic feet was a typo however. That would be a column of air 1' x 2' x 5'. It'd take an awful lot of hot rocks to heat a room that way.

Correct, my original submission specified 20' x 20' x 20'.

This spell enchants a piece of igneous rock so that when it is placed in a special housing unit it will generate heat which will warm the surrounding area through convection. The housing unit is a metal box with obsidian shards inside it. When the enchanted rock is placed inside the box between the obsidian shards, it turns red hot and radiates heat sufficient to warm a 20 ft. by 20 ft by 20 ft area. If the rock is touched directly it causes 1d4 points of fire damage per round of contact. The rock loses all heat if removed from the housing unit or if it is more than one mile from the volcano which produced the rock.

 

[Slife]

Remember, the 3e philosophy is that "These rules are how the world functions". NPCs operate the same way as PCs do. At least, that's what the 3e fans I've heard on these boards say: the rules are the world's physics.

I much prefer the "Everything not involved in the PCs works the way I need it to work because I'm the DM and it fits the situation."

OK, fine. The metalsmith gets 30000 roleplaying XP for having never been out of character throughout his whole existence.

 

[Vascant]

those are great spellbooks too. that's exactly the kind of weird-assed spells i was looking for. does anyone else know of anything else along those lines?

thx

Thanks..
While doing prep work for last nights game I came across another book..

Path of the Magi (Troll Lord Games)