3.X Petition

[mhensley]

Does D20 Haven not count?

Sorry, I haven't heard of this one before.

 

[KingCrab]

Yuck, what's with the black background. What are they, trying to strain my eyes so I can't read 4ed products?

 

[Deset Gled]

Things to do that would be more helpful than an internet petition or complaining on a message board:

1. Create your own publishing company to continue 3.x material. Publish in PDF to keep costs down, and use user-submitted material.

2. Let publishers know you want more 3.x material by purchasing 3.x material, especially stuff released after the 4e announcement.

3. Create a website to help manage all the different versions of d20/3.x that exist. Keep lists of different publishers, what rules they use differently than other publishers, what rules have changed over time, and information on how to mix-and-match source material with different rules sets. Do your best to work with publishers whenever possible.

4. Create some type of community (Myspace, Facebook, Yahoo, etc) for people dedicated to 3.x edition, so people who want to continue using it can find others that want to play with them.

5. Start a movement to improve tact among 3.x grognards. Spread the word that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and that being open-minded to 4e is the best way to make people open-minded about continuing 3.x.

6. Shake your fist at the sky, and curse the sun.

Any other ideas?

 

[ivocaliban]

I guess maybe Kenzer could use Hackmaster. Have a 3rd edition of that. Might depend on their contract with WOTC (since they licensed AD&D for that).

My understanding is that Kenzer is sticking with Hackmaster and creating a "5th" edition of the game. Future Kalamar material will be in Hackmaster 5th edition format.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

My $0.02.

I'm on the fence about 4Ed- some of what I hear excites me, some concerns me greatly. I'll probably buy the Core 3 (or whatever) and then make my decision about the system in general.

As for supporting 3.X with my dollars, I did and still do, and in a BIG way...or would if I could find something worth my $$$ on the shelves (I do not now nor do I plan to ever buy gaming PDFs).

IOW, I probably have 85% of what I want of releases by WotC and 3rd party producers like Malhavoc, Green Ronin, Necromancer, Mongoose, FFE, AEG, Atlas, SWS and many, many more. I even have duplicates of some books that see heavy use.

So, publishers, if someone puts out quality (physical) product, I'll buy it (and, FWIW, in a FLGS, not online). You'll earn my voting dollars.

But until something new in 3.X shows up on the shelves I can't do that!

So, I ask the publishers to weather the storm. A lot of the drop you're seeing in 3.X sales is purely due to anticipation of the new edition...kind of a "lame duck" period, if you will. Another portion of the decline I've seen is attributable to a lot of people raiding used book stores to grab up 3.X product people are dumping in anticipation of the new release.

Don't kill off 3.X projects in the pipeline. If 4Ed isn't the RPGnizzle, people will be looking for quality 3.X material. Heck, they'll be doing that even while buying 4Ed.

There very well could be an uptick in sales.

And no, I didn't and won't sign the petition. Capitalism works fine enough for me. If I don't care for 4Ed and 3.X products wither on the vine, I'll have more money to spend on feeding my G.A.S. (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome).

 

[catsclaw227]

As for supporting 3.X with my dollars, I did and still do, and in a BIG way...or would if I could find something worth my $$$ on the shelves (I do not now nor do I plan to ever buy gaming PDFs).

Hey DannyAlcatraz -- I am not sure if I read your reasons why online, but why do you not buy PDF products? Do you wait try to get the good (primarily) PDF products via Lulu or when they eventually go to print?

I guess it's safe to assume you aren't a "DM with your laptop" kind of guy.

And no, I didn't and won't sign the petition. Capitalism works fine enough for me. If I don't care for 4Ed and 3.X products wither on the vine, I'll have more money to spend on feeding my G.A.S. (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome).

I fed that syndrome in a bad way about 10 years ago... my wife (at the time) just couldn't understand. Perhaps she was fogged by her P.S.A.S (Purse and Shoes Acquisition Syndrome)? Competing for dollars and all that...

 

[Fifth Element]

Because they are confused, because the recent 3.5 market hasn't been providing them (enough) with what they want, because they believe in the crap that says that "you follow 4E or you just give up on D&D/you're a grognard/you don't matter", or any other of many different reasons. I'm sure there might be just as many reasons as there are people reluctant to switch to 4E, actually.

The specific reason doesn't matter. If they're not buying, they're not buying. And if they're not buying, there's no reason for publishers to produce *more* 3.X stuff, since the market is not there.

The lack of 3.X material is an effect of the sales slowdown, not a cause.

 

[Maggan]

1/ If you have figures on this, please share them. For the moment, I'm asked to believe people without actual figures to back this up.

But the problem is, if you chose not to trust the publisher, how would you trust the figures he presented? It is basically just the same situation as now; do you trust the publisher to give correct information or not, with or without figures?

/M

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hey DannyAlcatraz -- I am not sure if I read your reasons why online, but why do you not buy PDF products? Do you wait try to get the good (primarily) PDF products via Lulu or when they eventually go to print?

I guess it's safe to assume you aren't a "DM with your laptop" kind of guy.

Heh- I don't even own a laptop!

Why I'm a Print Only Guy:

1) I spend enough time in front of a computer. Text on a screen fatigues my eyes in ways that regular print does not. The only PDFs I own are either prizes won, gifts from others or are business/education related.

2) Printing PDFs shifts printing costs to the consumer in a way that does not capture efficiencies of scale. It is cheaper for a company to print 5000 copies of a book than for 5000 PDF purchasers to have their PDFs printed in an equivalent quality format.

3) I already know how to read a book and that will never change. The technology of books will never be replaced by something similar that will render the old ones obsolete in form. As long as I can read the language, a book is always useful, be it 5 years or 500 years old.

In contrast, computer code changes. I already own some gaming oriented software & files that are not usable on any machine made after 2000. Imagine trying to open a character sheet someone designed on their computer in 1985 on your current PC of choice. I'm a Mac person myself, and even with its awesome backwards compatiblility, I can't usually do that.

And imagine if someone decided that the next generation of PDFs no longer needed to be Mac compatible (like the current online presence of Dragon & Dungeon magazines)? What then?

That is never an issue with hardcopy as long as the publisher and I speak the same language.

4) I can take any of my RPG books anywhere in the world without worrying about 120v vs 220v; laws that prohibit the kind of technology that the public can own or carry, and so forth. If, God forbid, my house were in a war zone or Katrina-scale disaster area, I could still enjoy my RPGs with friends without using anything more than the books, dice, pencil, paper & imagination, as opposed to a $$$$ laptop that, if nothing else, is theft-bait.

5) Hardcopy books are vulnerable to a lot of things, but not a hacker.

Are there advangages to digital gaming products? Sure- they're "green," they're incredibly portable, etc., but so far, no advantage is compelling enough to me to even consider digital gaming products of any kind.

I'll have more money to spend on feeding my G.A.S. (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome).

I fed that syndrome in a bad way about 10 years ago.

Still have any faves left over? My collection is smallish, but growing: a Yamaha Classical, a Caddilac Greenburst Ovation Elite tuned C-G-D-A-E-G, a Washburn fretless acc/elec 4str Bass, a Dean 25 Anniversary Caddy 3 humbucker model tuned C-G-D-A-E-G, the Dean EVO Special Select pictured in my Avatar, and 3 Jon Kammerer (http://jonkammererguitars.com/gallery.php) guitars...one prototype "butterbean" 3 single pickup, a walnut accoustic with flamed F-hole, and a blueburst "factory dinged" version of one of these (http://jonkammererguitars.com/detail.php?recordID=77&rowNum=0) tuned C-G-D-A-E-G.

You should see my wish list!

 

[JoeGKushner]

I will gladly buy Green Ronin's Advanced Classes and Advanced Races for 3.5 in hardcover as soon as I see them at my FLSG.