Lord Xtheth
Explorer
As far back as I can remember I've ALWAYS called the fighter "Meat-shield" and that nickname IMO is the very meaning of defender.
3e->4e: The origin of the Defender Class
- Thread starter Stalker0
- Start date
grickherder
First Post
I don't know if this is a factor or not, but I generally found that a large portion of my pre-3e play was in dungeons. Where a fighter's main job was to block/hold a corridor.
For some reason, the lion's share of my 3e games were out doors. Large open spaces where enemies could easily move around your fighter and vice versa.
4e seems to be somewhat of a return to a dungeon based design. Even the more open printed battle maps that come with the published adventures like Keep on the Shadowfell seem to have some very obvious choke points, where one could use a high-ac threatening guy like a fighter (in any edition) to hold up the enemies.
So how much does the battlefield matter in this discussion?
For some reason, the lion's share of my 3e games were out doors. Large open spaces where enemies could easily move around your fighter and vice versa.
4e seems to be somewhat of a return to a dungeon based design. Even the more open printed battle maps that come with the published adventures like Keep on the Shadowfell seem to have some very obvious choke points, where one could use a high-ac threatening guy like a fighter (in any edition) to hold up the enemies.
So how much does the battlefield matter in this discussion?
blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
3e has flirted with defenders since the beginning. Initially it was restricted to PrCs, but eventually it made its way into base classes.
PrCs: Devoted Defender
Dwarven Defender
Tactical Soldier
BaseCs: Fighter (depends on feat selection, but see lockdown builds)
Knight
Crusader
Of all those, the crusader deserves particular mention - it's an obvious and direct ancestor of the 4e fighter and paladin.
-blarg
PrCs: Devoted Defender
Dwarven Defender
Tactical Soldier
BaseCs: Fighter (depends on feat selection, but see lockdown builds)
Knight
Crusader
Of all those, the crusader deserves particular mention - it's an obvious and direct ancestor of the 4e fighter and paladin.
-blarg
Nifft
Penguin Herder
No argument there.
Lester the Molester (another CharOp build) showed some interesting techniques for strongly encouraging one monster to pay attention to you -- or, in the case of the ultimate build, for punishing one specific monster with at least one AoO no matter what it tries to do.
Knight (PHB-II) and Crusader (Bo9S) were IMHO better Defenders, but technically you could lock down a foe you could trip just using Core.
Cheers, -- N
That One Guy
First Post
Indeed. I've been excited about that book since pre-4e stuff. 2WFighters? All I can say is yes.
Henry
Autoexreginated
You beat me to it. Fighter was referred to as "meat-shield" as early as some 2nd edition Dragon Magazines, and probably earlier; and before that, he was "the guy who keeps the magic-users from getting squished."
I've found the 4e fighter to be quite the damage dealer, even if he's no blade-cascading ranger or Hurl-through-Hell Warlock. On average, he seems around one die behind the strikers, and usually limited to melee range, but his powers are more reliable than the strikers, too it seems.
