4.33 Years in: What Now for 5E? (and have we reached "Peak Edition?")

Mercurius

Legend
This was vaguely inspired by the adventure saturation and What Does The Game Need Now? threads. The basic question is this: What now for 5E, and has it reached "peak edition?"

Think of the concept of "peak oil" and apply it to a D&D edition. I am not talking about output of production as much as the arc of the edition as a whole. It is that point beyond which everything is a general trend of inevitable decline...maybe not quickly, but it is the high-point. You could also look at professional athletes and pin-point the year in which that player was at his or her very best. Maybe there were ups and downs after, and certainly many athletes have multiple peaks interspersed by valleys. But many also have a highest peak.

So have we reached peak edition with 5E, or is the best still to come? It has now been 4 years and 4 months since the Starter Set came out in July of 2014; by comparison, here is where previous editions were at 4.33 years in:

4E: Sept-Oct, 2012. The edition was defunct, with 5e having already been announced at the beginning of the year and the "D&D Next" playtest well underway.

3.5E: Nov, 2007. 4E had already been announced, a few months previously. 2007 saw a flurry of releases, but down from "peak production" of 2006, and WotC had started to move into compilations (Rules Compendium), homage/legacy products (the Expedition books) and edition-neutral products (e.g. Grand History of the Realms). I believe the last official 3.5 book was City of Stormreach for Eberron, published in February of 2008. So essentially 3.5 was also dead, or almost dead, 4.33 years in.

3E: Dec, 2004. 3.5 had been out for a year and a half, and was in high gear. So depending upon how you look at it, 3E was either dead or thriving in a new, improved form.

2E: July, 1993. Oh, a bygone era. The mid-90s saw more official D&D product published than in any other era, and it isn't particularly close. By my calculations, 1995 was the peak of 2E production, so 1993 was still a couple years shy of that. This was also the Golden Age of D&D settings, with a bunch of settings supported and Planescape on the horizon (1994).

1E: c. 1981-82. Hard to pinpoint an exact date, as the 1e Monster Manual was published in 1977 and the PHB in '78. But 1981 saw the publication of FIend Folio; 1982 was a light year, but then 1983 saw 1E hit its peak - with MM2, the new covers, Dragonlance, and probably the start of decline shortly thereafter.

OD&D: c. 1978.
Well, we saw Holmes in '77 and 1E in '78, so OD&D was phased out as the primary form of D&D. B1: In Search of the Unknown was also published in '78.

Now obviously we cannot look to the early editions for how 5E might unfold; really, only 3E and beyond are relevant, as everything before was in the "Dark Ages" before the ubiquity of the internet.

So the questions, again:
- Where is 5E within its edition cycle?
- Has it reached "peak edition?"
- How might it age, relative to past editions?
- What do you see going forward, over the next 5-10ish years?

I'll offer some speculations, but will write them up in a reply.
 

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Stalker0

Legend
I guess the key answer would have to come from WOTC. Ultimately they made a conscious decision to publish less with 5e to avoid bloat. The strategy was to print fewer new books but gain more profit from each run.

They seem to have been successful in this model so far. Now obviously at some point new books are going to bloat the system, but to me it hasn't happened yet. So if WOTC still has a new of new titles to publish, I think there is a lot of steam left. If not, then yes we have likely hit the peak.
 

Mercurius

Legend
Some thoughts...

I think we can say that 5E is very healthy and thriving, relative to recent past few editions. It isn't dead (4E), dying (3.5), or been updated/revised (3E). Even going back to 2E, it isn't over-glutting like 2E was at this point, which led to TSR's implosion.

That said, those various stages within an edition seem inevitable at some point. But when? We know that Mearls & Co want to stretch the edition out much longer than in previous iterations, at least of WotC D&D, but I can't recall ever hearing him actually say "evergreen." Could be wrong about that, though.

That said, I think the edition continues to thrive for a few more years, at least. It is just doing too well to see significant decline anytime soon. I also think we'll see 4 products per year as a regular course of action; as I suggested in another thread, we might see two adventure books, one setting book, and one rules supplement. We'll see classic settings revived, and maybe a surprise or two along the way.

I think at some point we'll see a revised version of 5E, but with the gift set just out I don't think that will be anytime soon. Maybe we see something akin to "5.2" in a few years, but certainly not before 2020-21, if even then.

One date to keep in mind is 2024, which is the 50th anniversary of D&D. That is my best guess for "6th edition," in whatever form it comes. Beyond that, we really have to see where things are at in 3-4 years before speculating further on what 6E might entail. Will it be another big change, after a decade of 5E style play, or will it be more like a 5.5?

Anyhow, so my view is that we are still another couple years from "peak edition," with more really good years ahead. At some point, though, there will be a shift. My guess is sometime in the 2020-21 range. Then we'll start hearing rumblings of a new edition, or 50th anniversary edition starting in 2022...
 

Mercurius

Legend
A bit more on my "4 Products Per Year Theory"...

So far we've seen 19 products (including Starter Set) in five years (2014-18), or 18 hardcovers.

2014 saw the starter set, three core rulebooks, and two-part first story arc - so six products in all.
2015-17 saw the same pattern each year: two story arc books, one supplement.
2018 was the same as 2015-17, but added a fourth product - a setting.

I suspect 2019 will follow 2018, with four products: two adventures, a rule supplement of some kind, and another setting book. So it really isn't much different than the established pattern fo 2015-17, it just adds a setting book.
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
Some thoughts...

I think we can say that 5E is very healthy and thriving, relative to recent past few editions. It isn't dead (4E), dying (3.5), or been updated/revised (3E). Even going back to 2E, it isn't over-glutting like 2E was at this point, which led to TSR's implosion.

That said, those various stages within an edition seem inevitable at some point. But when? We know that Mearls & Co want to stretch the edition out much longer than in previous iterations, at least of WotC D&D, but I can't recall ever hearing him actually say "evergreen." Could be wrong about that, though.

That said, I think the edition continues to thrive for a few more years, at least. It is just doing too well to see significant decline anytime soon. I also think we'll see 4 products per year as a regular course of action; as I suggested in another thread, we might see two adventure books, one setting book, and one rules supplement. We'll see classic settings revived, and maybe a surprise or two along the way.

I think at some point we'll see a revised version of 5E, but with the gift set just out I don't think that will be anytime soon. Maybe we see something akin to "5.2" in a few years, but certainly not before 2020-21, if even then.

One date to keep in mind is 2024, which is the 50th anniversary of D&D. That is my best guess for "6th edition," in whatever form it comes. Beyond that, we really have to see where things are at in 3-4 years before speculating further on what 6E might entail. Will it be another big change, after a decade of 5E style play, or will it be more like a 5.5?

Anyhow, so my view is that we are still another couple years from "peak edition," with more really good years ahead. At some point, though, there will be a shift. My guess is sometime in the 2020-21 range. Then we'll start hearing rumblings of a new edition, or 50th anniversary edition starting in 2022...

Mearls has used the word evergreen on multiple occasions, actually. Doesn't mean there will never be a new edition, but they don't use 5E in any marketing for a reason. If there is a 6E, they want it to be backwards compatible and painless for existing players, that is, backwards compatible. Newer editions are probably as bad a bellweather as the older ones.

For a new edition, I would forsee the main change being in the specific exceptions to the general rules, such as Classes and Spells, but no essential change to the superstructure of the game. So we might get a new Ranger built from the ground up, but not new rules on stealth or something. And a 5E Ranger would be able to come in and play next to a 6E Ranger. A tenth anniversary set with new art and refurbished options that is a sixth edition seems possible.

A 5.5 is probably not going to happen. Another book of options like XGtE, or two, might happen, but no overhaul. Mearls has said as recently as last Tuesday that the PHB has sold so well, and is continuing to sell so well, that they will not do anything to remotely appear to invalidate any of those purchases.
 

Mercurius

Legend
First, some necessary disagreement!

I would go with 1e reaching its peak in 1983. We had all the great hardcovers in place through MM2. And we saw the publication of the last of the truly great "golden era" modules, such as Ravenloft (I6) and the finishing of the Desert of Desolation Series and Underwater (Saltmarsh) series.

You could make an argument for 1984 (depending on how you view Dragonlance), but 1985 is definitely too far (UA).

As for OD&D, 1976, with the publication of the last three supplements.

OKAY. Now that's done ...

To answer your questions-

I think that 5e will be similar to 1e, 2e, and 3e, and have a decade or so of official life before they need to start ... um ... maximizing profits again.

That means that we are half-way through.

In my estimation, we achieved peak edition this year- Volo's was great, MTOF was nice, but the publication of Ravnica (while an interesting choice) and the hints about campaign settings makes me think that they are turning to maximizing extensions of the product at this point.

Just to clarify, the dates given in bold for each edition were not when I thought they reached their peak, but when they were 4.33 years in - the same as 5E is now. As I said, I also agree that 1983 was the peak of 1E.
 


Mercurius

Legend
Mearls has used the word evergreen on multiple occasions, actually. Doesn't mean there will never be a new edition, but they don't use 5E in any marketing for a reason. If there is a 6E, they want it to be backwards compatible and painless for existing players, that is, backwards compatible. Newer editions are probably as bad a bellweather as the older ones.

For a new edition, I would forsee the main change being in the specific exceptions to the general rules, such as Classes and Spells, but no essential change to the superstructure of the game. So we might get a new Ranger built from the ground up, but not new rules on stealth or something. And a 5E Ranger would be able to come in and play next to a 6E Ranger. A tenth anniversary set with new art and refurbished options that is a sixth edition seems possible.

A 5.5 is probably not going to happen. Another book of options like XGtE, or two, might happen, but no overhaul. Mearls has said as recently as last Tuesday that the PHB has sold so well, and is continuing to sell so well, that they will not do anything to remotely appear to invalidate any of those purchases.

OK, this all makes sense and is sound reasoning. My only caveat would be, "as of now." Things can and do inevitably change, and the PHB presumably won't continue to sell as well as it is. Furthermore, they can probably eek more dollars out of people by coming up with an "expanded and revised PHB" - a 5.2 version of the book that doesn't invalidate or replace the 2014 version, but improves upon it. That would be the conservative view of what "6E" looks like, but it also could be 3-4 years out rather than the 50th in 2024.

As for evergreen, I'm thinking this is primarily about the game itself - the name brand, what D&D "is." Certainly having relative consistency with the rules is an important aspect of evergreen-ness, but there can still be subtle changes. The game can and should evolve, but it doesn't need to be radical changes we've seen in some of the past editions.
 

darjr

I crit!
The players handbook is STILL in the top 100 of ALL books. Even with Christmas looming and the gift set out.
Ravnica is 140 out of ALL books.
Mad mage is 307

I don’t know what WotC is going to do, but D&D is STILL doing unbelievably fantastic.
7F83D6A4-DD02-48A7-94EB-0B2AF0A3A658.jpegB5F00691-0990-4F89-A92C-277A6D073AAB.jpeg23F4EFD2-76CC-402F-A437-3B0AE547F8C6.jpeg
 

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