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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7493806" data-attributes="member: 4348">I get sales numbers on other things in the quarterly meetings...and have gotten sales numbers ON D&D previously.  I'm not with Hasbro or WotC today, and I'm in the same boat as all of you in this, but there is no reason they should NOT release actual numbers.Prior to now, such as 2015, D&D was such a small splash that I can understand why there was hardly any implications of it, though MtG was pointed out with some hard numbers.  It would be like trying to talk about how much Betrayal at House on the Hill or a smaller enterprise sold that year in relation to everything else.Now, with how much they are bragging...I WANT to see the hard numbers and find it curious that they don't.  It's far easier to make claims like they have without any substance to back it up, than it is when they release hard numbers to show exactly WHERE 5e is and how it's sold comparatively to other parts of WotC.  If it is as big as they are claiming then they are pretty close to MtG numbers in some areas.  I can see MtG in Walmart (and up until recently at least, and maybe still, Walmart STILL outsold Amazon in the US from what I understand, even if Amazon is pretty big), MtG has far more presence and more players (and it's still not a game as widespread presence in the US as say...Madden Football 2018).  If it's as big as MtG in numbers, why am I not seeing that?  I can see better market penetration than ever before, and I even can believe their 9-10 million players (even without their evidence to back it up, after all we have the 25 million AD&D/D&D players from prior to WotC and that has very little evidence too), but what are the hard sales numbers thus far for 2018?  Why are they saying they have this many players and then why isn't their market penetration as high as MtG from what I can see?PS: In the US MtG is still pretty high, not quite as high as AD&D numbers in the past, but it's still doing gangbusters.  Worldwide there are more than 20 MILLION MtG players.  In the US, if we assume at least 12-15 Million, and over 60K participate in premium events.  We should see something similar with D&D players if they are starting to approach those numbers in market penetration and representation in events and local scenes, meaning I should be able to go to nowhere North Dakota and pick up a D&D game set or something similar.  I CAN with MtG, even in very rural areas where there are no game stores and almost nothing around but maybe a Walmart.One other thing to add, with 15 million, if we go by that, we are talking almost 4-5% of all Americans are playing MtG, which is something even the most devout sometimes doubt or wonder.  If it's 10 million MtG player that composes around 3%  of Americans playing.  That means in nowhere South Dakota we'd have a representation out of their 2000 citizens in the city, we'd have 60 players.  That's more players than show up at some game shops on a regular basis.  We can account for it by large department store sales and otherwise.So, when WotC claims that you have 10 million D&D players, that means in a high school of 2000, you should have 60 D&D gamers in that school.  That's MORE than what you have show up at some hobby stores in cities with 40K or 50K people living in them.  A city of 40 or 50K means that you would have 1,200 - 1,500 people playing.  ANY game with that many playing it is going to have a pretty good representation in events and other wise in a city that size.  This is what I mean by we should see this market penetration everywhere if they are actually this many people playing D&D.   WE DID see it in the US during the early 80s fad.  WE did NOT see it during the late 80s and 90s.  This is why, because I'm not seeing this regularly, I'd like to see hard numbers on the actual sales for 5e.</blockquote>

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