#400: Jesse Decker's EnWorld embarrassment...


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I remember that incident. I would consider the reference Tracy Hickman's ENWorld embarrassment, not Decker's. Hickman is a good author and game designer, and generally a real nice guy . . . but in this case, he was being a douche.

I would say that in Tracy's case, it was because he's a great game designer and a really nice guy he was being a douche (as you put it).

Everyone's got buttons and in many cases a person's strengths are also their biggest weaknesses (and vica versa).

I didn't appreciate the BoVD much either and I thought the whole 'adult' content was an explotive marketing device especially associated with game that has broad appeal across age groups. But, unlike Tracy, I'm pretty far removed from this argument, so for me its mostly an intellectual exercise I can stay largely detached from. Tracy is and was at that fights exact center early in D&D's gaming history. More than any other individual, Tracy is responcible for saying, "Just because this is a game for adults, doesn't mean that we have to exclude children from it.", and for fighting the fight for age group inclusive content. More than any other person who ever lived, Tracy is responcible for arguing that maturity in a RPG doesn't have to mean obscenity, mysogyny, occult references or gratuitous violence and helped create the adventures that proved it. So naturally, when he sees the game he loves trending in a direction he doesn't believe it should take, he's going to get worked up about it.

I'd bet however he would regret some of his more heated rhetoric during that period.

UPDATE: I just went back and read Mr. Hickman's 9/11/2002 rant, and while it does still strike me as overheated (trashing a game really isn't comparable to murdering people) and unwise, I also find that distance tends to make the heat cool a bit and his feelings on the matter clearer and more understandable. Eight years later he strikes me as less angry than anguished.
 
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In the article Decker says that Hickman called him a terrorist. Not so. That part was about him comparing the topic of the book to people wanting to play as terrorists. Not really the same thing.

Here's the original EN World thread about the incident:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...-hickmans-view-dragon-300-sealed-section.html

He came across as overly emotional and really upset about the direction he saw them taking the hobby.

What really caught my eye was the very last sentence:

"And my I further suggest that you demonstrate your own maturity by avoiding purchasing or playing ANYTHING labeled for ‘Mature Audiences Only.’"

Ahem. :confused:
 

"And my I further suggest that you demonstrate your own maturity by avoiding purchasing or playing ANYTHING labeled for ‘Mature Audiences Only.’"

Ahem. :confused:

I agree with that statement.

Most things that are labeled explicitly 'adult' or 'mature' are simply purient and juvenile.

There are a few exceptions, but they aren't usually the stuff sold at 'Adult Bookstores' (though, come to think of it, I wouldn't know).

However, I do have enough of experience with such things, to know that if I go into an 'Adult Movies' section, chances are I won't be renting 'Schindler's List' or 'Citizen Kane' or 'The Third Man'. Chances are I'm not going to be buying something that appeal to my higher brain functions.

Most of the things that I would forbid my children, I do forbid them not because they take too mature of a mind to appreciate them, but rather because I don't want to hinder the maturation of their minds by filling them with things that are immature. Truly adult content tends not to scar children, but to bore them and anything that would scar a child is very questionable content for an adult as well. Constant profanity isn't a sign of a mature writer, but a lazy one with little to say. It's the equivalent of 'He said "Butt"' humor, which any three year old understands fully.

YMMV, but on that topic, I agree with Tracy completely. The 'sealed content' section wasn't actually designed to get more adults to purchase the magazine, but rather to get more adolescents to do so whose immaturity is demonstrated, and can be exploited, by the notion that anything forbidden them must somehow be 'the good stuff'.
 

the first lesson of porn

club...is...as a teenage boy you find your own porn, and get around your parent's restrictions. This is the real role of a parent, to deny things to their kids they will inevitably get anyway (and in mass abundance, trust me, even in the Bible Belt). You act as a mini-state, where the subjects must learn ways around the official rules to get what they want.

good for you! But...let's not overrate maturity too much, or disguise it in the borrowed robes of puritanism, which frankly your post and those like it verge on the edge of. Sure, deny your kids stuff, but don't live under the illusion that they will not be susceptible to those base desires...they will, and so will everyone. The best way to get over temptation is to yield to it, grok it, get bored with it, then move on..that's the real maturity. Assuming your kids will learn it by osmosis betrays a complete over-expectation of the actual power of parenting in this hyper-connected world we live in. You really don't have as much power as you presume to have. Kids will make bad decisions despite your best efforts...actually, making their own mistakes and suffering the consequences is the only real way to learn from them. you can read it from a book, but then do you want a race of people who are too prudent they never take any chances or throw caution to the wind?

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. Kids who are too prudent lose out on something quite valuable : a childhood. Boy, I wish I could go back and make some of the same mistakes I made (and avoid others). I used to love doing the wrong thing for its own sake, within reason. When you grow up, you can get bored of those types of cheap thrills, but as we are all base, vile animals by our nature..being domesticated only muted those impulses...doesn't mean you aren't still beholden unto them. (unless you're delusional that you only get your kicks above the waistline, sunshine).

There is no creepier pervert than the zealous puritan, in my books.
 


This is the real role of a parent, to deny things to their kids they will inevitably get anyway...

We seem to disagree about the role of a parent...

You act as a mini-state, where the subjects must learn ways around the official rules to get what they want.

And a government.

But...let's not overrate maturity too much...

If you mean that false maturity that is simply cowardice or despondancy in disguise, I agree... but really, in what area of Western culture are we in danger of overrating maturity too much or in holding up stodginess as too high and noble of an idea to aspire too? It may be well and true that there is a false maturity which is too much, but really, is being too much mature minded really the danger that most of us find ourselves in? Are we really more in danger of being too serious minded and too adult, or are we culturally really more likely to not put off childish things?

You sound like the bunny saying, "Don't throw me in the briar patch." I see no evidence that stodgy sobriety is overly admired in our culture, or that we as a society too much admire stiff collars, decorum and propriety.

in the borrowed robes of puritanism

Good sir, what makes you think that they are borrowed or that the charge that I wear them is one that I must be ashamed of? That you would frankly inform me that I might possibly sound like a prig for speaking disparagingly of pornography and the like I think sufficiently proves my point that our current culture is in no danger of being overly stuffy and puritanical.

Sure, deny your kids stuff, but don't live under the illusion that they will not be susceptible to those base desires...they will, and so will everyone.

I'm under no such illusion about their temptations or mine. But you are quite wrong if you think that the best way to control temptation is to yield to it, and in that the lastest research on the subject supports me. (Though I don't have the journal articles in hand.)

However, it's only necessary to do a simple thought experiment to undermine that sort of logic. You think that overindulging in food is the best way to remove the temptation to gluttony, or that overindulging in alchohol is the best way to remove the temptation to drunkenness? Well, how about moderate indulgence in heroine? Do you think that sexual relations in one relationship make it more or less likely that your next romantic relationship will also be sexual? Perhaps you believe that losing your temper and engaging in the occasional moderate violence, makes it easier for you to avoid the tempation to violence? Perhaps you believe moderate indulgence in murder makes it easier for you to resist killing someone? I think you will find that it is only the temptations you don't mind yielding to which conveniently fit into this frame work where less discipline breeds more self-discipline and training yourself to self-discipline somehow leads to its opposite.

Blowing steam doesn't lead to being easy going. It leads to a quick temper, because blowing steam feels good and encourages you to do it more. The same is true of dessert. What might be good every once in a while is not controlled by eating more of it until you 'get bored'. Somethings which are not good for you you will not 'get bored' of, even as you are killing yourself and know it, you'll still keep doing it. If you want to learn to eat dessert in moderation, cultivate a taste for vegetables not dessert. I don't try to teach my children how to eat by giving them junk food and hoping they'll get bored of it.

Too much prudence is not something I think is the greater risk compared to too little because prudence is not a virtue highly esteemed just at this time. Perhaps if the economy goes a little more sour that will change, but for now shouting about the dangers of prudence doesn't strike me as particularly self-aware. For example, someone who says:

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity.

Probably doesn't come from a culture where people are much in danger of too much prudence in their choices.

Kids who are too prudent lose out on something quite valuable : a childhood.

Which seems to me to require quite a bit of reverse logic. Imprudence doesn't lead to acquisition, but to ruination and loss. All work and no play may well make Jack a dull boy, and there is a time for work and a time for rest, but imprudence in either work or play gains you nothing but scars and the wreckage of a life. Scars are sometimes valuable, but you wouldn't want too many of them and while learning to deal with failure is important, some mistakes are harder to recover from than others. I'm not proud of the fact I've never been drunk (it's no fault of mine), but I am glad of it. I'm not proud of the fact I've only been with one person (the obvious joke is that it is a fault of mine), but I am glad of it. I'm glad of these things because I've seen far far more childhood's lost to imprudence than to prudence. Would that I had more of the latter than I often show.

But really, now we are straying from the topic at hand. I was only trying to clarify Mr. Hickman's meaning for someone who seemed confused.
 
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Down with EnWorld. Long live EN World!

Seriously, while I can understand this mistake is easy and common (I frequently omit the space), the one place you might want to make sure you're pedantically correct is in an article about an editor.
 

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