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47,220. What is that?
- Thread starter Treebore
- Start date
It would be really interesting to add data from the 1978-1984 window. According to a poll here on ENWorld it looks like the majority of D&D players started in those years (55%), then it radically dropped off and has been creeping downwards ever since.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=171146
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=171146
I have almost all of this data on my computer at work, but alas I am on vacation and 1800 miles from my office.
Suffice it to say that the numbers peaked around 1986 with more than 100,000 copies distributed. However, it's extremely unclear to me whether or not those numbers are reliable, as TSR was known for some pretty unethical numbers policies. I tend to trust the numbers from about 1996 forward implicitly, and take everything else with a grain of salt.
The upshot is that the magazine was _really_ struggling at the end of second edition, but got a real shot in the arm with the launch of third edition. A decline in the number of hobby stores over the course of the last couple years and hobby distributor consolidation have cut the number of copies distributed in the last few years, but the business is healthy and is now trending upward.
We're starting to see, in Dragon, the same kind of pattern that we saw with Dungeon a couple years ago after we relaunched it with issue #114. It took about a year for the changes to "take" in the readership, and the numbers have been climbing since.
--Erik Mona
Suffice it to say that the numbers peaked around 1986 with more than 100,000 copies distributed. However, it's extremely unclear to me whether or not those numbers are reliable, as TSR was known for some pretty unethical numbers policies. I tend to trust the numbers from about 1996 forward implicitly, and take everything else with a grain of salt.
The upshot is that the magazine was _really_ struggling at the end of second edition, but got a real shot in the arm with the launch of third edition. A decline in the number of hobby stores over the course of the last couple years and hobby distributor consolidation have cut the number of copies distributed in the last few years, but the business is healthy and is now trending upward.
We're starting to see, in Dragon, the same kind of pattern that we saw with Dungeon a couple years ago after we relaunched it with issue #114. It took about a year for the changes to "take" in the readership, and the numbers have been climbing since.
--Erik Mona
Treebore
First Post
I have to admit I was shocked to find the last 3 issues full (well, containing a lot) of useful material. It may end up being a good thing ENWorlders told me how awesome the "Igwilv" related articles have been. There is a lot of stuff even a Castles and Crusades CK can make use of. Plus their players if the CK likes the material.
I have to admit, this guy named "Erik Mona" seems to have worked wonders for not only Dungeon, but Dragon mag as well. I may end up regretting having ignored Dragon even though I saw the immediate improvement in Dungeon. Unfortunately I thought I would find even less use for Dragon with me switching to C&C. That looks to have been an incorrect assumption on my part. One it looks like I will finally be correcting.
I was also guessing, making the assumption, that fewer LGS' were also effecting the numbers.
I am also guessing that the price point for buying books is so much higher today than in the 80's. Inflation and all that may justify it, but it still bothers me a lot more to pay $30 to $40 for a book than it did for me to pay $15. The "reality" of economics is not going to change that perception. Especially since the "reality" of economics still says I have a budget to keep. $30 to $40 hurts my budget a good bit more than $15.00, which is why I buy so many of the adventures. They fall within that price range a lot more frequently than the HB books.
So irregardless of how economics "justify" WOTC's and everyone elses high prices, budgetary contraints are still going to limit how much people buy. The smaller their "budget" the fewer gaming items they will buy. So kids getting into the hobby is going to be much less likely now a days.
Its easier to get your parents to buy you a $4.00 booster pack to make you happy than it is to get them to drop $30 to $40 on a book.
So basically, inflation and increased costs are pricing more and more potential customers out of the potential market. So therefore RPG's are being forced to cut their own throat.
I have to admit, this guy named "Erik Mona" seems to have worked wonders for not only Dungeon, but Dragon mag as well. I may end up regretting having ignored Dragon even though I saw the immediate improvement in Dungeon. Unfortunately I thought I would find even less use for Dragon with me switching to C&C. That looks to have been an incorrect assumption on my part. One it looks like I will finally be correcting.
I was also guessing, making the assumption, that fewer LGS' were also effecting the numbers.
I am also guessing that the price point for buying books is so much higher today than in the 80's. Inflation and all that may justify it, but it still bothers me a lot more to pay $30 to $40 for a book than it did for me to pay $15. The "reality" of economics is not going to change that perception. Especially since the "reality" of economics still says I have a budget to keep. $30 to $40 hurts my budget a good bit more than $15.00, which is why I buy so many of the adventures. They fall within that price range a lot more frequently than the HB books.
So irregardless of how economics "justify" WOTC's and everyone elses high prices, budgetary contraints are still going to limit how much people buy. The smaller their "budget" the fewer gaming items they will buy. So kids getting into the hobby is going to be much less likely now a days.
Its easier to get your parents to buy you a $4.00 booster pack to make you happy than it is to get them to drop $30 to $40 on a book.
So basically, inflation and increased costs are pricing more and more potential customers out of the potential market. So therefore RPG's are being forced to cut their own throat.
Well, apparently while Eric Mona was writing I was in the basement thumbing through old Dragons for the reports. There's one in #33 (Jan-80) I can see on CD, but can't decipher, but don't have a hardcopy for it. Others are as follows:
#67, Nov-82: 71,666
#80, Dec-83: 107,348
#91, Nov-84: 120,080
#104, Dec-85: 123,083
#115, Nov-86: 108,542
So that looks like a pretty noticable bubble peaking in 84/85, which seems to be more generally the end of the golden era bubble for D&D play & products in general (and EGG's departure).
Just idly crunching some more numbers... current US population is 300 million, in 1985 about 240 million. So:
1984 - 0.050% of population recevied Dragon (1:2000 of population)
2006 - 0.015% of population received Dragon (1:6500 of population).
In round numbers, and acting as though only US distribution.
#67, Nov-82: 71,666
#80, Dec-83: 107,348
#91, Nov-84: 120,080
#104, Dec-85: 123,083
#115, Nov-86: 108,542
So that looks like a pretty noticable bubble peaking in 84/85, which seems to be more generally the end of the golden era bubble for D&D play & products in general (and EGG's departure).
Just idly crunching some more numbers... current US population is 300 million, in 1985 about 240 million. So:
1984 - 0.050% of population recevied Dragon (1:2000 of population)
2006 - 0.015% of population received Dragon (1:6500 of population).
In round numbers, and acting as though only US distribution.
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