Scribble
First Post
huh?
4e A different type of disconnect??
- Thread starter Imaro
- Start date
huh?
Celt said that combat in 4e was far too easy, and people said "That's not true at all, combat is incredibly hard if you completely disregard the leveled encounter system! Heck, my team of level 2's couldn't only beat level 8 encounters!" or "No way, combat is WAY deadly once you throw in a few elites and solo monsters."
Scribble
First Post
Ah... I thought it was a responce to what Obryn posted... thus my... huh?
Hah, naw. I just came into the thread too late to comment on that stuff earlier. Sadly, the thread moved on without me
Scribble
First Post
Hah, naw. I just came into the thread too late to comment on that stuff earlier. Sadly, the thread moved on without me
old man Cirno!
BryonD
Hero
Huh??!!??
LostSoul
Adventurer
Hey, I didn't say that. I said that in my last game the level 2 PCs could have dealt with a level 8 encounter, if another encounter didn't join in the fun.
My point being that maybe you should raise the encounter level if you want more challenging combats.
You know, just like in 3e.
grickherder
First Post
I had exactly this moment the last session I DMed. The player playing a human fighter wanted to trip someone. He specifically didn't take the power that allows him to do so. Now I'm supposed to what? a) give him the ability to trip and thus make his decisions about what powers to take meaningless or b) not allow him to trip someone in combat because he didn't take the sweeping strike or whatever?
I ended up just telling him to roll. He got a natural 20, so I gave him the trip. I essentially had to revert to freeform dice interpretation. I've done that in games that are supposed to have it, but it was really jarring to have to do that in a game where everything is so defined. What are my alternatives though? Give everyone what is functionally a new at will power? Not allow it at all? Be inconsistent and create different criteria for a successful trip every time someone attempts it?
I'm very positive about 4E, but I didn't like this one bit.
garyh
First Post
I think all the powers that trip, daze, etc. do damage plus inflict the condition. I'd say allowing him to trip without doing any actual damage would be a fair compromise. Still keeps the relevant power worthwhile.
Gothmog
First Post
Hmm, ok- I looked back through the thread and I'm not seeing what you're talking about here. I can't answer for other posters, but the two combats I listed that were brutal were party level +1 and party level -1, respectively. I have 6 PCs in my game, and using the guidelines in the DMG, the encounter with a grell (an elite), two trog maulers, one trog impaler, and one trog curse chanter was a 1750 XP encounter- a level 7 encounter for 6th level PCs. At the end of the battle, 3 of the 6 characters were dead, and two more were down. That encounter was only one level higher than partly level, and both sides were rolling pretty average.
The encounter at level -1 occurred when the party was 4th level (a 900 XP encounter= a level 3 encounter). Even encounters at party level or one level lower have KO'd or killed characters. Another one (when they were 4th level) involved 2 dark creepers, 3 zombie rotters, and a corruption corpse. That one ended with 1 PC dead, 4 down, and one conscious.
I never said I put solo monsters in a group- just that solo monsters can lay a severe beatdown on PCs. Nor did I ever amp the encounter level up to twice the party level, or give 2 PCs standard encounters. So make whatever assertions you like, but experience has shown me 4e combat is MUCH harder and more brutal than 3e combat, AND it works well right out of the book, unlike 3e.
But I will agree 3e needed fixing.
