D&D 4E 4e and Multiclassing

[Kae'Yoss]

Of course, multiclassed characters should not be better than singleclassed ones. But they should not be much worse.

I hope they figure something out to make it work for most or even all combinations.

 

[jasin]

That's really good - for "two classed" individuals. Adding a third class totally fracks the math though.

How so? For any given class just add 1/2 of all your other classes, just like in Bo9S.

Ftr12/Wiz8 is martial 16, arcane 14, as in Sadrik's example.

Ftr6/Wiz8/Clr4 is martial 12 (6 + 1/2*8 + 1/2*4), arcane 13 (1/2*6 + 8 + 1/2*4), divine 11 (1/2*6 + 1/2*8 + 4).

 

[The Shadow]

How so? For any given class just add 1/2 of all your other classes, just like in Bo9S.

Ftr12/Wiz8 is martial 16, arcane 14, as in Sadrik's example.

Ftr6/Wiz8/Clr4 is martial 12 (6 + 1/2*8 + 1/2*4), arcane 13 (1/2*6 + 8 + 1/2*4), divine 11 (1/2*6 + 1/2*8 + 4).

It can get somewhat ridiculous, though:

Ftr15/Wiz15 has martial 22, arcane 22.

Ftr10/Wiz10/Clr10 has martial 20, arcane 20, divine 20.

It's hard to imagine that the second guy isn't getting a really good deal compared to the first one.

 

[hong]

It can get somewhat ridiculous, though:

Ftr15/Wiz15 has martial 22, arcane 22.

Ftr10/Wiz10/Clr10 has martial 20, arcane 20, divine 20.

It's hard to imagine that the second guy isn't getting a really good deal compared to the first one.

1. In 3/3.5E, any comparisons past 20th level are pretty much blue sky.

2. Taking it down a tad, ftr4/wiz4/clr4 would be martial 8/arcane 8/divine 8. That doesn't seem so crash-hot compared to martial 12, arcane 12 or divine 12, especially in the context of a party.

3. Cf. previous long-winded threads on multiclassing and how it can gimp people (especially spellcasters).

 

[Horacio]

1. In 3/3.5E, any comparisons past 20th level are pretty much blue sky.

2. Taking it down a tad, ftr4/wiz4/clr4 would be martial 8/arcane 8/divine 8. That doesn't seem so crash-hot compared to martial 12, arcane 12 or divine 12, especially in the context of a party.

3. Cf. previous long-winded threads on multiclassing and how it can gimp people (especially spellcasters).

Hmmm, it makes sense!

For low levels it seems good too :

ftr2/wiz2/clc2 = martial 3/arcane 3/divine 3

ftr3/wiz3 = martial 4/arcane 4

not wildy unbalanced with single-class arcane 6, martial 6 or divine 6...

 

[Riley]

Sorry, but what the h... do you mean by bring back? DnD never had any rules allowing for effective multiclassing. Not ever.

1st ed had viable multiclassed characters - even overpowered in some cases. You divided your XP between your two (or three) classes, so when the rest of the party had 20,000 XP, the multiclass character had 10,000 xp per class. Given that the XP needed to advance doubled at every level, the multiclass character was generally only one level behind the straight character in each class. That is, a Cleric 6 was equivalent to a Cleric 5/Magic-User 5 (or rather, a Cleric 5/Magic-User 4, because clerics gained levels with fewer XP than Magic-Users). And - if I recall correctly - the character could even cast arcane spells in armor.

 

[4Egasm]

I'm psyched that multiclassing is going to get fixed. I do hope however that multiclassing doesn't become so good that single classed characters become a relic of 3E.

 

[The Shadow]

1. In 3/3.5E, any comparisons past 20th level are pretty much blue sky.

2. Taking it down a tad, ftr4/wiz4/clr4 would be martial 8/arcane 8/divine 8. That doesn't seem so crash-hot compared to martial 12, arcane 12 or divine 12, especially in the context of a party.

3. Cf. previous long-winded threads on multiclassing and how it can gimp people (especially spellcasters).

All right, then try this on for size:

Ftr5/Wiz5 has martial 7, arcane 7.

Ftr4/Wiz4/Clr2 has martial 7, arcane 7, divine 6

 

[hong]

Okay, that's indeed a wart and is probably what Irda Ranger was referring to (the rule was used in IH, before it got put into Bo9S). Maybe 1/2 of highest other class level (as opposed to all other class levels) would do the trick.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

All right, then try this on for size:

Ftr5/Wiz5 has martial 7, arcane 7.

Compare:
Fighter 10 (single class) has BAB +10 and 7 bonus feats

Wizard 10 (single class) has 5th level spells at caster level 10 and 2 bonus feats

Fighter 5/Wizard 5 (multiclass) has 4th level spells at caster level 7* and 1 bonus wizard feat, plus BAB +7 and 4 bonus feats.

You either lose 3 points of BAB and 3 feats, or 1 level of spells, 3 caster levels, and 1 feat.

Ftr4/Wiz4/Clr2 has martial 7, arcane 7, divine 6

Using the straight fighter 10 and wizard 10 from above:

Cleric 10 has BAB +7, 5th level spells and turns undead as a 10th level cleric

Ftr4/Wiz4/Clr2 has BAB +7, 4 bonus fighter feats, 4th level wizard spells cast at CL 7*, no bonus wizard feats, 3rd level cleric spells cast at CL6*, and turns undead as a 2nd level cleric

* If we're taking Bo9S as a starting point, spellcasters will use their effective caster level to determine the highest level of spell they can choose. However, they would only gain new spells known and spell slots when actually taking a level of their spellcasting classes. This would require some sort of retrofit of the system, which would work better if there were some kind of level-independent "spells readied" mechanic. In any case, a Ftr5/Wiz5 should be able to ready the same number of spells as a Wiz5, but should be able to choose 4th level spells as part of her repertoire.

Also note that in order to cast arcane spells, none of the above multiclass characters may wear armour.

I'm not making a judgement here. I'm just trying to spell it out so that there's a basis for comparison.

edit: Of course, I'm making these comparisons based on 3.5 assumptions. I think we can assume that if multiclassing rules in 4e operate on an "add 1/2 your other levels" basis, the classes will be designed to accommodate that.