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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goonalan" data-source="post: 4853870" data-attributes="member: 16069">I used to work as part of a team to fix Tornado Fighter Aircraft, hang in- I'm going somewhere with this. The Tornado's were training aircraft- ostensibly UK RAF pilots used them to teach Italian and German Pilots. Before the trainees were allowed in the aircraft they had to read lots of instruction manuals, take a test, attend lots of lectures etc. Then when they'd signed off on all of this, and passed the test- learnt the rules, only then were they allowed to take a test drive.And they'd turn up at the Line (where we line up the Tornado's) and some grubby little monkey (my Sgt/Chief Tech) would tell them about all the rules that were broken, or don't work, or have never worked- "you know where they taught you about when the APU... Well don't do what they taught, not what's in the books, it doesn''t work like that- I promise." Then we'd go through all of things that the aircraft should be able to do but err... couldn't or wouldn't or at least don't try any of the above (please), and they'd have to sign to say they'd seen and heard, and if they were smart they'd check their insurance.And sometimes a Pilot would forget about what we'd told him about the APU (or whatever) and then we'd have to put out the fire, and then go back about our business- the keepers of the knowledge, not the rules though they're in books, just how it works best (or at all).In short we house-ruled the Tornado- £22,000,000 and change and it don't work like it says in the books.And so to D&D, I've been at it a few years (25+), every edition is broken or at least needs house rules, not because the books wrong but because I'm right- and it's my game, so there.So I get what your saying OP, an immersive environment, and it feels wrong- the distances, the movement; but there's an awful lot of maths in these posts, and... well just fix it, whatever works for you. If 3.x floats your boat as far as movement goes then figure a way to make it work- plenty of suggestions here, although some of them make my head itch on the inside.I play using Maptools, I hated 4e when it came out, I've been playing it every Friday for the past (however long it's been out- less a few months of stolid- "I'm not switching"). I've played on-line with approx. 30 people in that time (me DM), nobody has mentioned the movement/measuring problem yet (and my present game is global, Serbia, Spain, USA and Halifax(UK)). That of course doesn't make us better people than the OP, possibly we're not as bright as the OP.Perhaps we're less bothered, perhaps the immersive environment comes from having nice maps, cool descriptions, cool tokens, cool monsters with strange new abilities and the odd fool who tries to get in character and do the voices (ahem... that'd be me then), but in general lots of other cool stuff, which we port from game to game, edition to edition- like the rules that we like.In conclusion- you hate 4e, your words (even without the vehemance of the word hate) you come to the game fearing the worst- where's the revelation, you don't like a game (for reason N) that you don't like. Meh.On the positive side I hated 4e for a myriad reasons, unless your posting all your other dislikes elsewhere then you're expending a lot of energy (as are others) on one broken rule- which is fine (afterall so am I now).And so with respect- I think you secretly love 4e and are locked in some internal battle in your mind for the very soul of D&D (as you know it)- a longshot I know, but I've backed outsiders before.Lastly the Tornado was billed, at one time or another, as the all-weather-fighter- which even then sounded silly, we generally had to apply two rolls of gaffer tape liberally in order to get anywhere close to living up to that moniker.4e has plenty of crap rules that I don't get, D&D taken as a whole has provided me with a myriad alternatives- pick one.Honestly, all the best with it, whichever edition you decide to play; D&D's a great game- taken as a whole.I still dislike Wizards though- and please don't respond to this, my tongue's in my cheek as I write it.</blockquote>

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