4e: big change in essentials: no more daily powers!

[ExploderWizard]

Personally, I can't see how you can call it a new edition if the rules stay the same and the new classes we get via the Essentials are compatible with those rules. But hey, that's just me, I guess.

The whole debate about the Essentials line seems to have degenerated into whether it is a "4.5" or simply more options. I find that incredibly sad, especially since most of those yelling "new edition, ha ha" are people who do not care for, nor play 4e.

It looks like an intermediate edition to me. A living playtest for concepts that look like candidates for the next full edition change. I can't wait for the previews. My concern as DM will be: will my players all want to switch characters and try the new stuff right away? Will the new options be largely superior to the old even though they both remain technically functional?

So here I am yelling "new edition ha ha" while experiencing legitimate concerns about the new material.

 

[Luinnar]

At least they are not reprinting half the old stuff ("essentials") with some new stuff thrown in.

 

[WotC_Trevor]

Hey guys. So before I get into this I want to point out that most of what I'm about to say, Mike or others here have already said, but I figured I'd come in and offer my clarifying points.

One of the first ideas behind Essentials was to change D&D in a way that was easier for new players to get at. This covers the marketing, repackaging, and simplifying some stuff that a lot of people here have touched on.

So this evolved into pulling out the rules and putting them in their own book, giving a small slice of 1-2 levels in the Starter Set/Red Box, a DM Kit with tokens and such, and a couple class/race books for players. With that basic idea, we also needed to make sure that we had something awesome to offer current players. And that's where the old classes/new builds thing comes into play.

And seriously, new builds is what I would liken the crunchy bits in the Essentials players books to. You've got the basic PH1 Fighter, you've got the battlerager, and then you'll have the Essentials fighter build. You have the Bow/Two weapon ranger, you have the beast ranger, and you have the Essentials ranger. The rules for playing the game don't change (beyond adding the rules updates into the compendium), and a party could easily have an Essentials build rogue right along side a Brawny Rogue from PH1 - that is, assuming the party wanted two melee strikers.

So there's my take on Essentials, and hopefully that mesh's with what you already know about it because... well... I'm really saying the same things that have already been said. As to rumors and speculation, this is the interwebz so I definitely expect to see people spinning up ideas of what they think Essentials is and isn't, but we'll be giving out more information as we get closer to the Essentials release. Next time will be a bit on the Compendium (as Mike pointed out) and once that's up we'll have more about the next tidbit.

 

[Reynard]

Side issue (and one I am much more interested in): will Core or Essentials be the base for Gamma World?

 

[WotC_Trevor]

Side issue (and one I am much more interested in): will Core or Essentials be the base for Gamma World?

The essentials products don't change the rules of D&D (again, beyond adding the updates into the rules compendium), so both, or either would be a correct response.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Rumors and speculation will overwhelm data, no matter what data they provide - up to and including the actual game materials themselves.

I would give xp for this, if I could, and it wasn't so depressing.

That said.... people need to come into the modern age. This whole notion of 4.0 vs 4.5 is clearly antiquated. 4e was introduced with modular design, and it being moved forward by modular design. There is not, and never will be, a need for an actual 4.5. They will continue to iterate, where once they would renovate (i.e. 3.0 -> 3.5).

Honestly, this thread reads like the World of WarCraft forums, with the people who would be most affronted by that notion being the obvious points of comparison. We've got advanced Chicken Little Syndrome, "It's a slap in the face"-itis, and "ZOMG-money-grab!!!" plastered all over the place.

The irony is delicious.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I would give xp for this, if I could, and it wasn't so depressing.

That said.... people need to come into the modern age. This whole notion of 4.0 vs 4.5 is clearly antiquated. 4e was introduced with modular design, and it being moved forward by modular design. There is not, and never will be, a need for an actual 4.5. They will continue to iterate, where once they would renovate (i.e. 3.0 -> 3.5).

Honestly, this thread reads like the World of WarCraft forums, with the people who would be most affronted by that notion being the obvious points of comparison. We've got advanced Chicken Little Syndrome, "It's a slap in the face"-itis, and "ZOMG-money-grab!!!" plastered all over the place.

The irony is delicious.

Its even more ironic when most of the Chicken Littles are non-4E players who are invested in the sky falling on 4E.

 

[Raven Crowking]

That said.... people need to come into the modern age. This whole notion of 4.0 vs 4.5 is clearly antiquated. 4e was introduced with modular design, and it being moved forward by modular design.

Again, this is not an artefact of the "modern age" -- this was true for every edition of D&D that ever has been, and will probably be true for any that ever shall be. There was not a need for an actual 3.5. As with 4.0, WotC could have simply continued to compile errata and make it available as changes to the SRD.

The idea that 4e is somehow different.....well, the irony (as the man said) is delicious.


RC

-

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Its even more ironic when most of the Chicken Littles are non-4E players who are invested in the sky falling on 4E.

Ah, yes. Double-backflip irony with a full twist.

None of them have stuck the landing yet, though.

 

[Herschel]

Yet another thread that reminds me why I love the internet. Please keep speculating, everyone!

And why I ignore the general forum fairly often. It's like reading the comments sections on Yahoo! stories. Instead of my party/team/etc. vs. your party/tem/etc. it's my edition vs. your edition.