D&D 4E 4E Class Survivor - Round 6

[Tallifer]

I view the cleric as a certain archetype of hero: he is not the epitome of a priest nor should he represent a priest of every religion.

A priest is a man who is dedicated to ceremonial service to hsi god and pastoral care of that god's local worshippers. (In my opinion, 99.9% of priests woudl never adventure: they have spiritual duties far more pressing than killing and helping other looters and killers with some healing. I can see however that many a priest might recruit a party of adventurers to help the god's cause.)

A cleric is a trained fighter who uses divine magic to heal and smite.

Priests could be any class. Conducting divine liturgy (or pagan sacrifices) and rebuking or consoling souls makes a priest. If your goddess is Kali, then as a priest your best class might be a rogue (thuggee). If your god is Odin, then your best class migth be a shaman or a barbarian. If your god is Elbereth Githoniel, then your best class might be a bard.

However, each religion might also have a place for a cleric among its servants. In the end, it seems to me, that if you neither like the cleric nor want to play a cleric, then pick another class for your worshipper or priest or avatar of _________

As for me, I consider the RAW cleric to be a kind of paladin. He fights. He smites. He turns undead. He can wear heavy armour and swing swords if he works at it. Just a slightly different package of skills.

 

[Garthanos]

I view the cleric as a certain archetype of hero: he is not the epitome of a priest nor should he represent a priest of every religion.

Feel free to name a few instances from non-d&d fantasy that fits that archetype. and make sure it isnt a priest or better defined as a paladin.

They need to be miracle workers wrapped in armor inspiring people... associated with a religion.

The ambiguity between cleric and paladin does not help either ones cause.

 

[Tallifer]

Feel free to name a few instances from non-d&d fantasy that fits that archetype. and make sure it isnt a priest or better defined as a paladin.

They need to be miracle workers wrapped in armor inspiring people... associated with a religion.

The ambiguity between cleric and paladin does not help either ones cause.

You are absolutely correct. The Gygaxian cleric does not exist in myths or literature. That is why I consider him just a variant of the holy warrior. (In fact the Gygaxian cleric is definitely a paladin: plate armour and a mace. At least the 4th edition cleric can be a scimitar-wielding ghazi of the jihad or something else.)

I think that your point also supports why I believe people are mistaken who complain that the cleric does not suit their conception of a priest. The simple fact we must face is that playing a priest will not usually entail playing a D&D "cleric."

If one wants to roleplay a priest, then he should roleplay a priest as a background. Then choose a class which matches his concept.

If one wants to play a cleric, then he and his dungeon master should think hard about what that means in their world. Is he a paladin? Is he is an especially pious fighter? Or does his religion in fact endorse heavily armoured, mace-wielding, undead-smiting freelance adventurers as priests? (As you can guess, in my world, priests pray and heal in their parish. And when I play a "cleric" in another campaign, I just reflavour his title as "templar.")

 

[Garthanos]

Oh man I am so a Grognard for 4th Edition it isnt funny ;-)

 

[ZzarkLinux]

The 2 strikers completely destroy DnD 4e game balance and obsolete all other strikers.
Vote them off.

 

[ShadowDenizen]

Well, I've been alternating in these polls between the Invoker and the Warden.

This time, it's the Warden's turn.

 

[RefinedBean]

I think a well-played Fighter serves as an excellent paladin and sheds the unneeded fat that's built up over this concept.

Yes. This.

The Paladin is the guy that calls the cops on your party when it's not even midnight. The Paladin isn't your friend. He's a religious sadist who looks to his god for an excuse to kill things. He is anti-fun. Get rid of him.

 

[Garthanos]

The Paladin is the guy that calls the cops on your party when it's not even midnight. The Paladin isn't your friend. He's a religious sadist who looks to his god for an excuse to kill things. He is anti-fun. Get rid of him.

He 's the cleric in disguise as a defender he is...

 

[Glyfair]

And we say goodbye to the warlock., the first non-leader to be voted off the list. Who will be next? Will the strikers be targetted? Will it be the war- classes? Perhaps those classes some consider to be oozing with flavor, but not optimized?

 

[FireLance]

He's a religious sadist who looks to his god for an excuse to kill things.

Actually, I thought that was the Avenger...