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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 5855092" data-attributes="member: 17106"><p>Well, if they want to be expert combatants, then yes, they need to learn the whole combat chapter (which needs to be manageable). But if they don't want to be expert combatants or manage resources, they aren't forced into that level of complexity by a system that requires everyone to choose a roster of powers. It's surprising how many players are not interested in tactical combat. Or even in rules in general. I've had quite a few.</p><p>Yep.</p><p>Well, the ones that every PC, NPC, and monster has. Plus he needs to be familiar with anything the PCs want to take so he can make a decision on whether to allow it. And he needs to understand all the possible combinations of abilities that could lead to imbalance or confusion. Believe me, I know how much a DM needs to know.</p><p>It certainly does; at which point you most likely have widespread redundancy (unless there are really hundreds of meaningful and meaningfully different combat actions that are worth discretizing for an abstract game like D&D with only a mild focus on combat), beginner-unfriendly option bloat with the potential for each new power to be gamebreaking and create a general power creep, and (assuming that each individual character does not have hundreds of powers) a vast rulebook full of hundreds of things that won't see use and that your particular PC can't do, but which someone spent time developing and you have to pay for. In other words, same old, same old.</p><p></p><p>I'd rather see them pick a finite number of things and do them right. Have we ever seen grapple done really well? How about parrying?</p><p></p><p>If you go to three different doctors, you'll likely get three different diagnoses. If you go to three different auto body shops, you'll get three different estimates. And you expect better from a roleplaying game? The implicit standard of consistency you're setting is to me completely inconceivable for a game with the scope of D&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 5855092, member: 17106"] Well, if they want to be expert combatants, then yes, they need to learn the whole combat chapter (which needs to be manageable). But if they don't want to be expert combatants or manage resources, they aren't forced into that level of complexity by a system that requires everyone to choose a roster of powers. It's surprising how many players are not interested in tactical combat. Or even in rules in general. I've had quite a few. Yep. Well, the ones that every PC, NPC, and monster has. Plus he needs to be familiar with anything the PCs want to take so he can make a decision on whether to allow it. And he needs to understand all the possible combinations of abilities that could lead to imbalance or confusion. Believe me, I know how much a DM needs to know. It certainly does; at which point you most likely have widespread redundancy (unless there are really hundreds of meaningful and meaningfully different combat actions that are worth discretizing for an abstract game like D&D with only a mild focus on combat), beginner-unfriendly option bloat with the potential for each new power to be gamebreaking and create a general power creep, and (assuming that each individual character does not have hundreds of powers) a vast rulebook full of hundreds of things that won't see use and that your particular PC can't do, but which someone spent time developing and you have to pay for. In other words, same old, same old. I'd rather see them pick a finite number of things and do them right. Have we ever seen grapple done really well? How about parrying? If you go to three different doctors, you'll likely get three different diagnoses. If you go to three different auto body shops, you'll get three different estimates. And you expect better from a roleplaying game? The implicit standard of consistency you're setting is to me completely inconceivable for a game with the scope of D&D. [/QUOTE]
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4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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