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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hassassin" data-source="post: 5855297" data-attributes="member: 6675228">The only baby I'm interested in salvaging is approximate balance between caster and non-caster classes. Anything else that 4e changed with the power system wasn't significantly better than in earlier editions, or was worse, IMO. However, I understand that many people want codified "interesting" abilities for martial classes. So 5e will need something like that.There are two main features with the encounter and daily abilities in 4e that I suspect fans are interested in: 1) they are cool moves and 2) when to use them is a tactical or strategic concern. A system like [MENTION=3424]FireLance[/MENTION] proposed on the first page, where the more powerful abilities are tied to your die roll has the former, but not the latter feature. A 3e-like system with a list of maneuvers always usable also doesn't have that feature in a strong sense.An alternative way (that I've mentioned before) to limit more powerful abilities would be to associate a penalty with using them. Using an "encounter"-level ability would make you fatigued until you can take a short rest (e.g. -2 to all checks). To limit their use after the first attempt they could be unusable while fatigued, there could be a condition track with tired and exhausted, or they could be even less likely to work than other abilities when fatigued (e.g. -2 to other checks, but -4 or even -8 to fatiguing abilities) - this should make them on average a poor choice at that point.That would change the game from one where you blow your encounter abilities in the beginning of an encounter to one where you are encouraged to use them later to minimize the negative effects. This would support a view of those abilities as cool finishing moves, which IMO would be better fit to how such abilities usually work in literature and movies.[sblock=Example]Taking a very simplified view of combat, an example would be a fighter whose basic attack deals 1d8+3 damage with 60% hit chance. He has access (either through class, feat, or because everyone does) to Power Attack which is a fatiguing ability that deals double damage.Average damage from the fighter's basic attack: 60% * 7.5 = 4.5Average damage from Power Attack: 60% * 15 = 9Average damage from basic attack while fatigued (-2): 50% * 7.5 = 3.75Average damage from Power Attack while fatigued (-8): 20% * 15 = 3 (or not available at all)In a 5 round encounter, the fighter's expected damage would be 24 if using PA on the first round and 27 if using it on the last round.[/sblock]</blockquote>

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