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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5857694" data-attributes="member: 22779">So, I need to succeed at three separate checks, just to make a regular attack against an opponent - if I fail the first, I lost my action for the round, if I fail the second, I deal no damage, and if I fail the third, I suffer serious penalties, possibly taking multiple attacks at bonuses.Why in HELL would I ever do this?  What possible reason would there EVER be for a player to take this option?  I'm doing regular damage?  I lose out on iterative attacks (if I have any) and I suffer serious chances of failure.Or, I could just move up and make a regular attack, suffer no additional chances of failure, and be in total control of my destiny the entire way.  Yeah, that's a hard choice.  Again, your example is EXACTLY why we need guidelines.  Most DM's can't conceive of the math behind the game and make things unnecessarily difficult for too little benefit.Ahh, I see we're going to be extra pedantic today.  Sorry, my 4e rules lore isn't picture perfect.A 10th level PC in 4e, base, has 11 powers, at least 5 of which are either at wills or encounter.  That's not counting any magic items, racial goodies, feats, or other odds and sods.  Exactly how many options do I really need?  Sure, a 10th level 3e caster has more options, he's got 16 spells per day (not counting zero levels).  So, our wizard has 5 more options per day than our 4e character.  Note, that I picked a caster, because, well, any non caster has about 3 options at any given time - charge, full attack and whatever feat tree he's pursued.  Now, those 5 more options though are all dailies.  After the first encounter, our wizard is down to 10 options - the 4e character burns all his dailies, so, he's got 8 or 9 options, depending on his utility powers.  Second encounter?  4e guy's still got 7 or 8 options, 3e wizard is probably down to 6 or 7.  Third encounter?  Wizard's pooped, he's out.  Blew through his spell list.  Certainly he should have blown through his list by the fourth encounter - the game is BUILT on that presumption.4e guy's still trucking along.  Only thing that's slowing him down is running out of healing surges.  Keep those topped up and he has no problems.So, the whole argument over "I have more options" depends an awful lot on what point in the adventuring day you want to talk about.  And, of course, presumes you're talking about a full caster.  Everyone else is pretty much reduced to the three basics for the entirety of their existence.Me, I LOVE the fact that non-casters FINALLY have options.  Janaxstrus nicely proves why non-casters never had options.  Even what he considers "reasonable" is still screwing over the non-caster.</blockquote>

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