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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5858990" data-attributes="member: 22779">The problem is, at least with the examples you give, that there are pretty much always better choices than what you present.  The fighter (and typically only the fighter will be strong enough) gives up his attacks to grant a +2 bonus to another character?  That's not going to fly.  Why would it?Hrm, I have the best chance to hit this monster and I do the most damage (or if not the most then certainly second best), but, I'm going to forego that so that Bob over here gets an extra 10% chance to hit?  Unless Bob has the only weapon that can hit the monster, then that's a bad choice.  It's FAR better for me to take the poke, do some damage, than to gamble that Bob is only going to miss by 2 or less.  It's a sucker bet.DR is rarely an issue.  Again, the odds favor that the fighter will have the right DR bypassing weapon before anyone else on the table.  And, as far as pushing the baddie away from the wizard, well, 1.  Why isn't the wizard just moving back?  and 2.  I'm giving up my attacks to move the bad guy back 5 feet - which he's just going to go around me again anyway even if I succeed.  Since I have no real way to prevent his movement, my action was largely a waste of time.Giving up attacks in 3e is almost never a better tactic.  There's a reason the trip fighter build was so popular.  You got to trip AND attack.  Which is pretty much the basis for all 4e fighter powers.  You get to do damage AND do something funky.If I'm taking penalties to my attack, or giving up my attack entirely, then the rewards for doing so should at the very least, meet what I'm giving up.  If I'm giving up an average of 20 points of damage (just picking a random number) then whatever effect I'm aiming for better be equivalent.Is a +2 to hit worth 20 points of damage?</blockquote>

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