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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5860842" data-attributes="member: 957"><p>This presumes that</p><p>a) "that guy" doesn't move</p><p>b) the combat dynamics don't change who "that guy" is. (this happens BERY frequently in my games)</p><p>c) "that guy" lives til the end of the game</p><p></p><p>Again, I can't speak for your game. I don't dispute it is true for you. I completely dispute that it is a truism.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No. They actually had a lot of the one monster "set pieces" in the ST stuff.</p><p></p><p>But, just to put that to bed...</p><p></p><p>Taking ST out and just looking at the other adventures:</p><p>avg # dropped to 3.5</p><p>% over 3 dropped from 45% all the way down to 44%.</p><p>% with 2 or 3 went from 29% to 32%.</p><p>Still several with 10+ foes (though the 20+ case did drop out)</p><p></p><p>So, either way, your numbers were not even in the BALLPARK. You were just plain wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I just demonstrated that it doesn't matter. But isn't it interesting that you are saying this flying in the face of your claims doesn't count because it happens to be "not typical", but it was hugely popular? </p><p></p><p>As I said, even if your numbers HAD been right, your point still doesn't stand because the system itself does an awesome job of managing large groups, whether WotC or Paizo elected to design adventures that way or not. The fact that you are mathematically way wrong (both with and excluding ST) is just icing.</p><p></p><p>I didn't claim you said "you can never move". Your point 1 (aka point 2) was you should stay with who is in your face so you don't lose attacks. You point 5 was you should go to the biggest threat.</p><p></p><p>And, yet again, nothing in this post addresses the true heart of the issue.</p><p></p><p>You should have your own CHOICE if you want to do something a second time. Having the rules tell the players they can't do it again is a good way to convince people to play a different game. I don't REMOTELY claim that 4E's flaws are summed up here, but on this point, they did an excellent job of driving fan base away.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5860842, member: 957"] This presumes that a) "that guy" doesn't move b) the combat dynamics don't change who "that guy" is. (this happens BERY frequently in my games) c) "that guy" lives til the end of the game Again, I can't speak for your game. I don't dispute it is true for you. I completely dispute that it is a truism. No. They actually had a lot of the one monster "set pieces" in the ST stuff. But, just to put that to bed... Taking ST out and just looking at the other adventures: avg # dropped to 3.5 % over 3 dropped from 45% all the way down to 44%. % with 2 or 3 went from 29% to 32%. Still several with 10+ foes (though the 20+ case did drop out) So, either way, your numbers were not even in the BALLPARK. You were just plain wrong. Well, I just demonstrated that it doesn't matter. But isn't it interesting that you are saying this flying in the face of your claims doesn't count because it happens to be "not typical", but it was hugely popular? As I said, even if your numbers HAD been right, your point still doesn't stand because the system itself does an awesome job of managing large groups, whether WotC or Paizo elected to design adventures that way or not. The fact that you are mathematically way wrong (both with and excluding ST) is just icing. I didn't claim you said "you can never move". Your point 1 (aka point 2) was you should stay with who is in your face so you don't lose attacks. You point 5 was you should go to the biggest threat. And, yet again, nothing in this post addresses the true heart of the issue. You should have your own CHOICE if you want to do something a second time. Having the rules tell the players they can't do it again is a good way to convince people to play a different game. I don't REMOTELY claim that 4E's flaws are summed up here, but on this point, they did an excellent job of driving fan base away. [/QUOTE]
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4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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