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4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5863366" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Just as a point, let's stick to encounter powers. Dailies are a somewhat different issue and, afaik, haven't really been discussed, so, let's leave them alone for a moment.</p><p></p><p>Your presumption here is that it requires very long odds in order to have an "awesome" moment. I disagree. The awesomeness isn't because you happened to get really lucky, it's awesome because the right thing happened at the right time.</p><p></p><p>What isn't awesome is when special maneuvers, not the bread and butter stuff like basic attacks or at-wills (to use the 4e term), but, the funkier stuff, happen. </p><p></p><p>I look at it like this. If you have a 5% chance of pulling off something awesome, then you have a 95% chance of failing and having an entirely forgettable gaming moment. I'd MUCH prefer that the awesome thing is very likely going to happen. In JC's dragon feeding example, it's awesome because the player <em>fed his hand to a freaking dragon to poison it</em> not because it only had about a 1 in 100 (if even that) chance of occuring.</p><p></p><p>So, we make "Feed your Hand to a Dragon" a Daily effect with some serious bonuses - make it reliable, since if you miss then the dragon didn't bite your hand off - pump up the damage several levels because you are <em>chopping off your own hand to kill something!</em> and bob's your uncle. It's not like you can do this one twice after all. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>The goal here, at least for me, is to have multiple different effects possible in a given scenario. And, let's not forget, these effects should synergize with the effects that the other characters can reliably perform as well. If everyone only has a 5% chance of doing something awesome, then you will never get any synergy because the odds are just too long.</p><p></p><p>Trying to achieve awesome through long odds just means that most of the time you get plain jane boring. </p><p></p><p>Although, thinking about this, I wonder if my board gaming experience isn't cropping up here. I've been playing a lot of Euro board games lately. Catan, Endeavour, and a bunch of others. In Euro style games, the random element is greatly reduced compared to American style board games. Not that random is removed, that's not true. But, the games tend to really downplay random elements in favour of players cooperating/competing to achieve goals. It could be that I'm pulling that sensibility over to RPG's as well.</p><p></p><p>I have to admit, I'm becoming less and less enchanted with randomness in RPG's as time goes on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5863366, member: 22779"] Just as a point, let's stick to encounter powers. Dailies are a somewhat different issue and, afaik, haven't really been discussed, so, let's leave them alone for a moment. Your presumption here is that it requires very long odds in order to have an "awesome" moment. I disagree. The awesomeness isn't because you happened to get really lucky, it's awesome because the right thing happened at the right time. What isn't awesome is when special maneuvers, not the bread and butter stuff like basic attacks or at-wills (to use the 4e term), but, the funkier stuff, happen. I look at it like this. If you have a 5% chance of pulling off something awesome, then you have a 95% chance of failing and having an entirely forgettable gaming moment. I'd MUCH prefer that the awesome thing is very likely going to happen. In JC's dragon feeding example, it's awesome because the player [i]fed his hand to a freaking dragon to poison it[/i] not because it only had about a 1 in 100 (if even that) chance of occuring. So, we make "Feed your Hand to a Dragon" a Daily effect with some serious bonuses - make it reliable, since if you miss then the dragon didn't bite your hand off - pump up the damage several levels because you are [i]chopping off your own hand to kill something![/i] and bob's your uncle. It's not like you can do this one twice after all. :D The goal here, at least for me, is to have multiple different effects possible in a given scenario. And, let's not forget, these effects should synergize with the effects that the other characters can reliably perform as well. If everyone only has a 5% chance of doing something awesome, then you will never get any synergy because the odds are just too long. Trying to achieve awesome through long odds just means that most of the time you get plain jane boring. Although, thinking about this, I wonder if my board gaming experience isn't cropping up here. I've been playing a lot of Euro board games lately. Catan, Endeavour, and a bunch of others. In Euro style games, the random element is greatly reduced compared to American style board games. Not that random is removed, that's not true. But, the games tend to really downplay random elements in favour of players cooperating/competing to achieve goals. It could be that I'm pulling that sensibility over to RPG's as well. I have to admit, I'm becoming less and less enchanted with randomness in RPG's as time goes on. [/QUOTE]
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4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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