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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5865084" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>Well, I disagree. For instance, in this scene (actions starts at about 1:50):</p><p>[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7ZHWSEABWE&feature=related]Final Fight (Scene From Kiss Of The Dragon) - YouTube[/ame]</p><p></p><p>In this scene, he uses the same moves over and over. At about 2:17, he starts hitting legs over and over. He grapples someone and throws/knocks them into others at 2:05 and 2:31. Goes for the legs again multiple times at 2:41. He feints someone in combat three times in a row at about 5:30.</p><p></p><p>Or, like this scene with Tony Jaa: </p><p>[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_LHPYERoyk]Tony Jaa Break Bones - YouTube[/ame]</p><p></p><p>Tony Jaa is breaking bones over and over (the action starts 0:40 in). Sure, it looks different, but as Lost Soul points out, such is the abstract nature of D&D. I can use my "Break Bone" maneuver this round, and it deals damage and disables them. The first guy, I break him arm. Then I break someone's fingers. Then I break someone's arm again. Then another arm. And so on.</p><p></p><p>This scene is very popular out of the scenes in this movie, and he very much does the same move over and over.</p><p></p><p>Or here's another fight, but with western weapons:</p><p>[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1slkFc7YBkc]Best Sword Fights - Vol. 2 - Troy - YouTube[/ame]</p><p></p><p>In this scene, Achilles does his jumping attack (the one that kills the other army's champion at the beginning of the movie) at 1:51 and again at 2:51.</p><p></p><p>People use the same moves twice in the same fight in these scenes, including breaking bones, shots that kill champions, trips, and the like. And, most people consider these good scenes, not boring.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The cumulative penalty would give you a shot at being awesome, and I think a smaller chance is nearly necessary for it to be awesome instead of cool. If we're going for cool, there's lots of ways to add that; my RPG has stances and maneuvers in addition to the standard combat maneuvers (plus a couple others). If you qualify for all nine stances (not impossible at high hit die), you'd have over 70 different maneuvers to perform, not counting the standard combat maneuvers like trip or grapple).</p><p></p><p>You can imbue cool in a lot of ways besides encounter powers. I just want a way to make encounter powers more appealing to more people, and in a way that I think encourages awesome moments.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Um, that's what the cumulative penalty would accomplish, wouldn't it? You'd know your odds are worse, but if you succeed, a moment of awesome can be achieved. Either way you can fail to poor rolls, but you had the power in setting it up. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5865084, member: 6668292"] Well, I disagree. For instance, in this scene (actions starts at about 1:50): [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7ZHWSEABWE&feature=related]Final Fight (Scene From Kiss Of The Dragon) - YouTube[/ame] In this scene, he uses the same moves over and over. At about 2:17, he starts hitting legs over and over. He grapples someone and throws/knocks them into others at 2:05 and 2:31. Goes for the legs again multiple times at 2:41. He feints someone in combat three times in a row at about 5:30. Or, like this scene with Tony Jaa: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_LHPYERoyk]Tony Jaa Break Bones - YouTube[/ame] Tony Jaa is breaking bones over and over (the action starts 0:40 in). Sure, it looks different, but as Lost Soul points out, such is the abstract nature of D&D. I can use my "Break Bone" maneuver this round, and it deals damage and disables them. The first guy, I break him arm. Then I break someone's fingers. Then I break someone's arm again. Then another arm. And so on. This scene is very popular out of the scenes in this movie, and he very much does the same move over and over. Or here's another fight, but with western weapons: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1slkFc7YBkc]Best Sword Fights - Vol. 2 - Troy - YouTube[/ame] In this scene, Achilles does his jumping attack (the one that kills the other army's champion at the beginning of the movie) at 1:51 and again at 2:51. People use the same moves twice in the same fight in these scenes, including breaking bones, shots that kill champions, trips, and the like. And, most people consider these good scenes, not boring. The cumulative penalty would give you a shot at being awesome, and I think a smaller chance is nearly necessary for it to be awesome instead of cool. If we're going for cool, there's lots of ways to add that; my RPG has stances and maneuvers in addition to the standard combat maneuvers (plus a couple others). If you qualify for all nine stances (not impossible at high hit die), you'd have over 70 different maneuvers to perform, not counting the standard combat maneuvers like trip or grapple). You can imbue cool in a lot of ways besides encounter powers. I just want a way to make encounter powers more appealing to more people, and in a way that I think encourages awesome moments. Um, that's what the cumulative penalty would accomplish, wouldn't it? You'd know your odds are worse, but if you succeed, a moment of awesome can be achieved. Either way you can fail to poor rolls, but you had the power in setting it up. As always, play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
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