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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5867750" data-attributes="member: 22779">Just as a point - you are using "simulation" to mean "simulating reality - as in our real world reality".  This is not actually what simulation means.  Action Movie simulation would allow for you to knock a gelatenous cube prone, and would still be simulationist.Sorry, just a bit of pedantry there.And this is where we differ.  I look at every edition of D&D and every edition adds more mechanically supported options in combat than the edition before.  Doesn't matter which edition you want to talk about, every subsequent edition adds more stuff you can do mechanically in combat.This was one of my major draws to 3e to be honest.  You mean I can have standard tricks built into the system and don't need to play Mother May I with the DM to pull them off?  FANTASTIC!  I can trip, disarm, whatever, and it works!!!  WAHOO!!But, then, as I played more and more of the system, I started to notice more and more problems.  Tricks only work if you spend the feats and lazer beam focus on having them work.  Tricks become the default with such characters, meaning they're no longer tricks.  Many tricks are highly campaign dependent - disarm only works on stuff that has a weapon and most D&D monsters don't.  Grapple was... not an easy mechanic to use.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Along comes 4e.  They take all those tricks that I want to do, and make them work.  Every time.  I don't have to mess about with feats or whatnot.  They just work.  Sure, it might be wonky from time to time, but, meh, to me, it was totally worth it.  I mean, taking the tripping the gelantinous cube example, who really cares?  How often do you actually fight oozes, and when you do, how often do trips actually come into play?To be honest, I've never actually seen it in play.  So, for me anyway, it's entirely hypothetical.  The closest I've seen to this sort of thing is forcing surrender with Intimidate checks.  My Dark Sun Faelock has spent considerable resources on being able to kinda/sorta reliably force surrender.  But, between the DM and I, we've basically come to a gentlemen's agreement that certain creatures just aren't susceptable to the effect, even though the mechanics might allow it.Not a huge deal.  It doesn't come up all that often, so, meh, not that worried about it.And that's the thing, most of these "problems" with simulation that people talk about are very, very hypothetical.  Don't like Come and Get it?  Well, fine, don't use it.  You'd actually have to have a fighter in your group, and that player would have to choose to use that power, instead of the eight or ten other powers of that level he could choose.  It's not like there's not other options that are perfectly acceptable.For those of us who don't have a problem with the option, what's the big deal with allowing us the choice?  You don't like it, just say no.  That's not going to break the game.  I just don't understand the big deal with giving those of us who aren't "traditional gamers" the options that would make D&D better for us.</blockquote>

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