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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5869989" data-attributes="member: 957">*chuckle*   particularly coming soon soon after the other comment  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I can't speak to this much, since I'm in the camp that doesn't observe the 15MAD issue.  But it has frequently been described to me that a big part of 15MAD comes from not being "optimally" ready.  Your comment suggests that in 4E because so many power are "encounter" they always come back, whereas in prior editions because the wizards powers are all daily they are gone, thus implying that the wizard novas and has *nothing* left.    This happens *VERY* rarely.  If that was the complaint the issue would stand even less.What does happen is that the wizard will be out of or low on fireball or invisibility, or whatever.  And the party will discuss the fact that they are not at full strength.  And, as described by people who complain about 15MAD this is the issue that triggers "go home and rest".  It is about being at less than full when you could go back to full, rather than "oh no, I'm completely tapped out."If your dailies are gone you are still at less than full strength.  So it seems no different to me.  If anything, when a 4E character has spent his dailies, his top tier tricks are gone.  When everything is "daily" having some portion of them spent doesn't automatically carry the same weight.  Again, I readily admit I can't speak much to this issue since it isn't a problem I have.  But I don't see the difference here or how the point of wizards powers being all "daily" really supports it as it has been historically argued.Clearly a fair portion of the pro-4e niche does see this issue in prior editions.  So it exists.  I just don't buy that this point fits with the complaint as usually described.  IMO it really seems to come back down more to an issue of narrative control.  I don't have a 15MAD issue *not* because anything in the PF mechanics but because the adventuring days is narrative driven and both the characters and the players are pushed in a direction of managing the big picture series of narrative events as opposed to managing based on mechanics.  4E "fixed" the problem with mechanics.  But now you have mechanics fixing a narrative problem.  And if that isn't as problem you have the consequences of the trade off  to "fix" that problem still exist.I have an interesting example that is almost a backwards example.In my current campaign the 15MAD happens routinely.  It happens more often than not.I'm running kingmaker.  The way that campaign runs there can be weeks or even months between encounters.  The players usually hold something back because they never know for certain that nothing else will happen.  But they are pretty free with their resources.But I expect it would be exactly the same thing if run on 4E.  The one encounter nova is a standard part of the narrative directive of this campaign.  The players go in knowing that they can be a bit more free with their spell slots and if the game were 4E they'd be just as free with their dailies.  The mechanical system is irrelevant to this issue because it is the narrative choices of the campaign that are driving it.And there are some location based pieces of the story.  And when the party comes to those, 15MAD goes away instantly.  And I've no doubt that future campaigns will be more like all the past campaigns.  15MAD won't be 100% absent.  It will happen those times that the narrative calls for it.  And that is a feature.  I want the narrative in control of that.</blockquote>

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