Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="LostSoul" data-source="post: 5870045" data-attributes="member: 386"><p>I think that's a fair list. I run a hack of 4E and I've made some changes that deal with these issues - in a way that works for my personal tastes.</p><p></p><p>[sblock]1. I changed the game system to apply a system-governed cost to time. In the game there are NPC groups called "Lairs". As time passes they grow more and more powerful and their reach across the map expands. This makes it harder and harder for PCs to achieve their goals - and goals are how PCs gain XP and progress past certain level thresholds ("tier bands" is what I call them).</p><p></p><p>The 15-minute adventuring day still exists, but it's not always an optimal solution.</p><p></p><p>2. I use a combat system that's detailed but not abstract: you have to describe what your character's doing and we resolve that action instead of an abstract rules module like "Trip", "Grapple", or "Spinning Sweep".</p><p></p><p>Since monsters are varied combat becomes varied, i.e. wolves fight differently than do giants.</p><p></p><p>3. As part of the above, martial encounter powers rely on fictional, in-game trigger conditions that must be met before they can be used. They can be used at-will as long as the condition is met. Thus it doesn't feel like you're casting "Spinning Sweep"; it feels like you're setting up a combat manoeuvre.</p><p></p><p>4. I limited the modifiers to a small list and let the fictional, in-game weight of various actions handle the rest. e.g. If someone puts you in an arm lock, you can't use that arm.</p><p></p><p>5. Rounds go by much quicker, and because of morale checks, combats don't last as many rounds as a general rule.</p><p></p><p>6. Martial healing powers are now explicitly magical.</p><p></p><p>7. Since we resolve actions instead of rules modules, there's no need to define special attacks - every attack can be considered "special".</p><p></p><p>8. I've explicitly defined how and when you use page 42 - when you use those DCs and damage expressions. Hmm, not so much for damage expressions.</p><p></p><p>9. Minions represent non-combatants. Haven't touched elites or solos as there's little grind left in the system - morale checks deal with that.</p><p></p><p>10. Haven't done anything there. Still a problem. Not that big a problem, though.[/sblock]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>More changes:</p><p></p><p>[sblock]1. PC generation is by rolling 3d6 in order, then assigning a 16 to one stat. There is no option to dump stats in such a system.</p><p></p><p>2. There's no assumption that you will fight equal-level NPCs; players choose the level of risk they are willing to have their PCs meet. 2nd-level PCs can end up against 11th-level monsters (as happened two sessions ago), and the reverse is also possible (and more likely).</p><p></p><p>3. Because of the above, magic items aren't required; what they do is allow the players to take on greater risk (for greater reward).</p><p></p><p>4. Haven't changed this, may have made it worse (because of how morale checks work).</p><p></p><p>5. Didn't write the books, so this is something I can't change. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>6. Haven't fixed this, though I've changed it. Any check can be associated with any stat, as long as it makes sense. Reaction rolls increase the value of charisma - it's probably the most important stat, since most encounters begin with a reaction roll modified by Cha mod.[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="LostSoul, post: 5870045, member: 386"] I think that's a fair list. I run a hack of 4E and I've made some changes that deal with these issues - in a way that works for my personal tastes. [sblock]1. I changed the game system to apply a system-governed cost to time. In the game there are NPC groups called "Lairs". As time passes they grow more and more powerful and their reach across the map expands. This makes it harder and harder for PCs to achieve their goals - and goals are how PCs gain XP and progress past certain level thresholds ("tier bands" is what I call them). The 15-minute adventuring day still exists, but it's not always an optimal solution. 2. I use a combat system that's detailed but not abstract: you have to describe what your character's doing and we resolve that action instead of an abstract rules module like "Trip", "Grapple", or "Spinning Sweep". Since monsters are varied combat becomes varied, i.e. wolves fight differently than do giants. 3. As part of the above, martial encounter powers rely on fictional, in-game trigger conditions that must be met before they can be used. They can be used at-will as long as the condition is met. Thus it doesn't feel like you're casting "Spinning Sweep"; it feels like you're setting up a combat manoeuvre. 4. I limited the modifiers to a small list and let the fictional, in-game weight of various actions handle the rest. e.g. If someone puts you in an arm lock, you can't use that arm. 5. Rounds go by much quicker, and because of morale checks, combats don't last as many rounds as a general rule. 6. Martial healing powers are now explicitly magical. 7. Since we resolve actions instead of rules modules, there's no need to define special attacks - every attack can be considered "special". 8. I've explicitly defined how and when you use page 42 - when you use those DCs and damage expressions. Hmm, not so much for damage expressions. 9. Minions represent non-combatants. Haven't touched elites or solos as there's little grind left in the system - morale checks deal with that. 10. Haven't done anything there. Still a problem. Not that big a problem, though.[/sblock] More changes: [sblock]1. PC generation is by rolling 3d6 in order, then assigning a 16 to one stat. There is no option to dump stats in such a system. 2. There's no assumption that you will fight equal-level NPCs; players choose the level of risk they are willing to have their PCs meet. 2nd-level PCs can end up against 11th-level monsters (as happened two sessions ago), and the reverse is also possible (and more likely). 3. Because of the above, magic items aren't required; what they do is allow the players to take on greater risk (for greater reward). 4. Haven't changed this, may have made it worse (because of how morale checks work). 5. Didn't write the books, so this is something I can't change. :) 6. Haven't fixed this, though I've changed it. Any check can be associated with any stat, as long as it makes sense. Reaction rolls increase the value of charisma - it's probably the most important stat, since most encounters begin with a reaction roll modified by Cha mod.[/sblock] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4E combat and powers: How to keep the baby and not the bathwater?
Top