4E Combat isn't like WoW, it's like Street Fighter.

[Tarek]

4e is, in my opinion, most like City of Heroes, in terms of its approach to spell-like abilities and special attacks, and the way they're chosen.

Seriously. Think of the different classes as Archetypes, and the at-will, encounter, daily, and utility powers as being different power pools.

 

[hamishspence]

movement

Is it similar in the importance of movement and positioning?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Is it similar in the importance of movement and positioning?

That reminds me of something.

4E is both board-gamey and video-gamey, I've heard. I think the only way this really works if we assume a round-based tactical game.

So, D&D 4 is Jagged Alliance 2! Probably the best tactical strategy game with role-playing elements ever. (Well, at least from the few I've played... )

Though honestly, not even JA 2 is that strong of movement and positioning. But certainly more then WoW or NeverWinter Nights...

 

[hamishspence]

Tactical strategy with roleplay elements

An interesting term to use. Might explain why it appeals a lot to some people but not to others.

I like the concept myself. in a sense, part of winning it outmanuevering and outplaying the enemy (assuming the DM plays the monsters right to be challenging but not impossible)

Does that mean that tactical skill is important, not just optimization or clever use of spells. Is co-ordination by the players the key to beating difficult challenges?

If so, I like the idea.

 

[CountPopeula]

No it does not.

Once again, the closest analogue to 4E in terms of videogame genres is the japanese tactical RPGs like Disgaea and La Pucelle Tactics.

(and if you equte those with WoW and Diablo, prepare for a very angry response from SRPGS fans like myself )

This makes me like 4e even more than I already did. I hadn't really noticed the similarity to the SRPGs, but I see it now.

 

[jmucchiello]

At least no one is comparing it to a button smasher:

A: your basic melee attack
B: Your basic ranged attack
A+>: your first at-will ability
B+>: your second at-will ability
B+^: racial encounter power (If applicable)
B+v: class encounter power (if applicable)
A+^: level 1 encounter power
AB+^: level 3 daily power
A+v: level 5 encounter power
AB+^: level 7 daily power
A+A+>: level 9 encounter power
shoulder 1: level 2 Utility power
shoulder 2: level 6 Utility power
etc.
< may substitute for > when attacking to the left. Sony folk can substitute circle and square for A and B as needed.

(I'm at work so if I have levels wrong, oh well.)

 

[VorpalWarrior69]

So, D&D 4 is Jagged Alliance 2! Probably the best tactical strategy game with role-playing elements ever. (Well, at least from the few I've played... )

Oh....Jagged Alliance. Sweet Jagged Alliance and all of its iterations.
"A woman? I was replaced by a woman!"

 

[hamishspence]

Games

Whichis not to say that a Diablo-ish flavour of game isn't fun. In fact, given that it was Diablo that got me into fantasy-type computer games in the first place, I would tend to favour a little use of Diablo-ish elements.

Libraries with ritual scrolls and one or two single-spell ritual books for copying rituals into player spellbook.

Shrines, providing little bonuses (healing, temporary spells, etc)

Unique monsters with more hit points and a special ability (teleport, invisible, magic attack)

Cloth armours.

I don't see 4th ed as especially Diablo-ish. But I would enjoy using it to play games with diablo-style flavour.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

An interesting term to use. Might explain why it appeals a lot to some people but not to others.

Isn't that what RPG combat systems always boil down to?

Though, if I think about it, JA2 was really good at the role-playing part. Of course, you didn't get to _really_ role-play yourself, but the Mercenaries had unique personalities. It was just fun seeing Igor and Ivan (the Russian Dolvitch cousins) work together and congratulating each other for their kills. And if you added Iggy, it was getting even better.

I really don't get why the "wanna-be" successors failed to capture this appeal. It can't be that hard to work out some soldier-interaction, and it makes the game so richer...

[/off-topic]

 

[RangerWickett]

This actually inspires me to make a few house rules to give the game a bit more gamism, while also adding some narrative to battles.

Each character, in addition to race, class, and all that jazz, chooses their how they power up. You can choose to power up by taking damage, dealing damage, by time, or other factors. We'll have to balance them, but they'd give different playstyles. Some characters would want to get beat on, others would want to do hit and run, and so on.

As you power up, you gain access to encounter powers. And, once you've used two encounter powers, you get to use your daily powers.

Of course, I haven't played much 4e yet, so I'm not sure if it's actually needed, but I'd definitely implement something like this for a fighting game-based RPG, so that duels will hopefully end with the strongest powers, instead of starting with them.