D&D 4E 4E Core Rulebooks- how can the layout organization be improved?

[Sammael]

Magic items are in the PHB, so that's one problem solved.

When was this confirmed?

 

[charlesatan]

When was this confirmed?

In the CD that was distributed at Gen Con, it had PDFs in them and the files were uploaded at the Enworld front page. Here's the write-up for the PHB:

The Player’s Handbook® features a new cover design, a fresh new page layout, new character options, new magic items, and new rules that facilitate faster and more exciting gameplay from level 1 to level 30. (Hardcover, 288 pages)

 

[charlesatan]

I hadn't noticed because there aren't many individual creature listings -- there's groupings. And within the groupings, they didn't make any effort to keep the individual listings on single pages (although the grouping as a whole does start on its own page).

(I just looked at the old MC listings for comparison. 12 stat block lines. No wonder they were able to get such a nice, clean layout.)

Said layout is actually applicable for MM3 - MM5, although MM3 was a close approximation. You're right about the groupings though but I guess that can't be helped. Looking at the description for the new Monster's Manual at the Enworld front page:

Monster Manual is a 288 pagebook, with over 300 monsters. New format for stat blocks, simpler and easier to use

We might not have the 1-page monster layouts depending if there's actually 300 or more monsters (since the book only has 288 pages) and that doesn't include the page for table of contents and other miscellaneous info.

 

[Stalker0]

For the phb, it would be nice to have a general table list in either the front or back. While the hope is that tables like the turning table will no longer be necessary, it would be nice to have all tables in a nice convenient place.

For MM, 1 monster = 1 page.

 

[mhensley]

black text on a white background
no text on top of images
writing with a conversational tone
lots of examples with images

 

[Logan_Bonner]

Hey, thanks for starting this thread.

We're doing many of the things mentioned here, but we can always use new advice.

The main problem for the PH1 (and other books to some extent) is balancing it as a reference book and a book for learning the game. I've been working on organizing the combat chapter. I tried something I hope will be more intuitive than before, but I'm not sure if it worked. We'll see what playtests turn up.

 

[Cam Banks]

Hey, thanks for starting this thread.

We're doing many of the things mentioned here, but we can always use new advice.

The main problem for the PH1 (and other books to some extent) is balancing it as a reference book and a book for learning the game. I've been working on organizing the combat chapter. I tried something I hope will be more intuitive than before, but I'm not sure if it worked. We'll see what playtests turn up.

Something I have seen frequently in game books is failing to introduce a concept properly before it is first used. One way this can be successful is to throw out an example of play right off the bat, using all the terminology and phrasing, and THEN following that with "and once you've read this book, you will know what all of this means." This sets up the reader to the kind of tone he might want to take the book with, and it's a little like seeing a trailer for a movie. You will recognize a lot of it, but you won't entirely know what's going on, and once you do it's sitting there in your mind waiting to be resolved. That's a fun reward.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hey, thanks for starting this thread.

We're doing many of the things mentioned here, but we can always use new advice.

The main problem for the PH1 (and other books to some extent) is balancing it as a reference book and a book for learning the game. I've been working on organizing the combat chapter. I tried something I hope will be more intuitive than before, but I'm not sure if it worked. We'll see what playtests turn up.

It might be hard to do within the page limits, but I think a good idea would be to have a special section that contains the basic tables and action descriptions from the combat chapter. It's useless for a beginner to just have some random tables and action descriptions without context.

An alternative might be to at least provide such a "Reference Sheet" as online resource (PDF) that players or DMs can print out. Similar to a DM/GM sheet, but more exhaustive.

 

[mmadsen]

I'd like to reiterate that the Players Handbook should contain everything you need to play the game, along with examples of play.

The exhaustive lists of spell, magic items, monsters, etc. can go into other books, but all the core rules should fit into one book, with enough material to play the game.

 

[howandwhy99]

I thought both the standard 3.5 PHB and MM had spot on layouts.
The DMG needs a complete overhaul. Essential elements at the game table include:
Magic Items - ok
Conditions appendix - maybe a pull out?
Special Abilities appendix - ditto
Environment appendix - ditto
Traps - were hidden in a chapter when they are as used as the MM
Dungeon animals (molds, etc) - ditto as traps
Wilderness / Urban adventures - ditto as traps
Random Encounter Tables - needed to be tabbed for my play
NPC & PC wealth tables - split and hidden
NPC attitudes table - this is central if you don't have an official screen

Plus so many other elements could have been addressed within. The different playstyles for groups as well as individuals weren't addressed. Plus, creating in game rationales for each of the rules could go a long way to addressing the world vs. the rules during play.