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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 9580750" data-attributes="member: 58172">I enjoy your principled discussions.Cool. It helps when there is a clear starting premise. I will focus on the internet analogy.I dont fully understand this inability to travel, since the Astral Plane is literally "transitive" plane between two planes.In any case, I do use the Astral Sea to travel from one alignment plane to an other. As I understand it. Each alignment plane comprises multiple dominions, and some of these dominions "border" the Astral Sea. The dominions that do border can be seen from the Astral Sea as floating islands. These islands are more like internet links to "click" on, to open up the dominion in the alignment plane. From the perspective of the Astral Sea, as one approaches the floating island, at a certain boundary, the inside of the island starts to become "bigger on the inside" than it was when approaching the size of the island from a distance.One can hop from island to island while traveling the Astral Sea in a spelljammer. However, the locations of the islands within the mindscape sea are subjective. If the Tree is ones search engine, then certain islands might be next to each other, namely within sight of each other. If the Wheel is the search engine, then the nearness or farness of an island depends on that search engine.As I understand it, the Astral Plane can exist without the Material Plane. (Or more precisely, the Astral Plane can exist while the Material Plane is empty nothingness. Part of the "creation" of the multiverse, is the Astral Plane coming up with ideas for how to populate the Material Plane.)Thus one can travel from one alignment plane to an other, thru the Astral Sea, without entering the Material Plane via one of the Wild Spaces.Of course, if one is traveling to and from the Material Plane, then the Material Plane is a terminus.I think I agree with this statement.When traveling from the Material to the Astral, or from one alignment plane to an other, it is a "planeshift", not a "teleportation". One does not change "location in space" because there is no space. Rather one is "shifting" ones "frequency" sotospeak, to "tune into" what exists at such frequency − the plane "shift".Such as in a dream, one does not "teleport" from one space to an other. But one scene "shifts" to an other, because they have something in common that reminds the dreamer of each one. This association between two scenes is the "nearness" of the scenes to each other.Actually yes. This "Foogle search page" is what the Spelljammer Helm supplies. This page allows a sense of up-and-down. It is like a Foogle page, but rather than a two-dimensional screen, it is a three-dimensional virtual reality, where the islands are near or far around one.One can learn to travel the Astral Plane intuitively, without a Helm. But it is more like familiarity with dream interpretations.The AWB − indeed, the Spelljammer Helm. The Helm supplies a consistent view of the Astral Plane, where the "locations" sotospeak of a floating island remains a moreorless reliable landmark to determine the "direction" and "distance" of an other island.You can go from the dominion of "Hottopica.com" directly to dominion of "Pradadise.com" ... if Hottopica itself has a link to Pradadise. These links are "whirlpools", "portals", "crossings".  These are still via the Astral Plane, but more like wormholes that step across with no "distance" in between.The Planeshift spell is similarly opening like a wormhole shifting from one frequency to an other, with virtually no frequencies in between.The way the Astral Plane appears to a traveler there, is itself the Foogle.If the search engine was Fing instead of Foogle, the things in the Astral Plane would appear in a different constellation.I hope I supplied enough explanation to understand what I am saying.The Planeshift spell is like link to a page. The Gate spell might be understood more like an email address to chat with someone directly.Both are like wormholes thru the Astal Plane to access the correct "frequency" (web address) directly.1. I dont see a problem. Maybe the description about the Tree is imprecise. Explain your understanding of the Tree. The Wheel and the Axis work fine with the comments above in this post.2. If one can perceive the Astral Plane at all, in any way, then one is already using some kind of cosmology (search engine / browser) to become sensitive to frequencies (websites).3. I think all the cosmologies are "correct", namely sufficiently useful. But explain to me more about why the Tree is odd.Everything is simultaneously true. Because.If I use the Axis, the planes are in a certain location, but if I use the Wheel the planes are in a different location, from the perspective of being in the Astral Plane or the Elemental Chaos.It is probably fair to understanding the Elemental Chaos that "borders" the Astral Plane as being part of the Astral Plane, or at least entangling it.(Moreover, the Astral Plane overlays all that exists. If something exists at all it is part of the "ideas", "patterns", of the Astral Plane. Therefore, ultimately, one can travel via the Astral Plane to anywhere.)The Astral Plane is the internet as a whole. The cosmology is the method of how to find things within the internet.I hope I communicated clearly enough to give a sense of my understanding of the Astral Plane and the conflictive cosmologies. If there are specific difficulties, I appreciate you calling attention to them.</blockquote>

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