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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 3866192" data-attributes="member: 32164">People throw this quote out a lot. And they base it on the absurd theory that Gandalf is a 6th-level wizard. More on that later.Now...Aragorn. He goes 135 miles in under 3 days. On foot. He faces orcs and kills them by the dozen. He faces and chases off three of the Nazgul armed with nothing more than a couple of flaming sticks. Show me a D&D character who can take on 3 Death Knights with no more help than three 1st level halfling fighters. Finally. let's take an actual quote from The Lord of the Rings, shall we? This is from Helm's Deep:'There are among us names worth fifty battle-hardened warriors."In case there's any doubt, the mentioned are Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and maybe Eomer. It does NOT include Gandalf (who's not present when this line is said). Fifty. Battle-hardened warriors. Not 50 1st-level mooks. Aragorn may not be 20th-level, but he's well past 5th.Back to Gandalf. Try this: Stat up a Balor. Think it's scary? Stat it up again. When you can possibly imagine it wiping out an entire stronghold of experienced warriors by itself and scary enough that THOUSANDS of orcs flee from it, it's scary enough. What is that by D&D standards? 18th level? 20th? 25th?Now create a character who can stand against it in a fair fight. That is Gandalf. Just cuz we don't see his powers doesn't mean he doesn't have them.</blockquote>