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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4e Design and JRR Tolkien
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<blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 3867834" data-attributes="member: 2205"><p>You didn't originally put these two paragraphs together, but if you do, I think that there's a bit of a disconnect or paradox in your claims. If these themes and motifs are so ubiquitious in our culture as you claim, then no, you actually don't need to read the original source to "get" them. I can "get" the point of Frankenstein without ever reading Mary Shelley (I recommend reading it anyway; entertaining and thought-provoking book, but the fact remains that I can watch <em>The Terminator</em> or even <em>I, Robot</em> as shallow as that film is, and come away with most of the same themes and ideas.</p><p></p><p>I've long maintained that my favorite fantasy involves a roadtrip on the big ole tourbus of the Dallas Cowboy's Cheerleaders.</p><p></p><p>?? I'm not really seeing that. I see Tatooine as a clear homage to <em>Dune</em>. The similarity of the words jed, jeddak and Jedi seem to be coincidental, as they otherwise don't really have anything in common, the banthas don't need to be based on Barsoom since they look more like weird alien desert elephants than anything else (dewbacks as thoats, though? Hmm...) and Sith are just generic black knight type characters with a heavy layering of dark wizard, which is pretty antithetical to Barsoom.</p><p></p><p>Still, while I disagree that Star Wars heavily resembles Barsoom, I do agree that it manages to get resonance. However, I first saw Star Wars (when it was new) when I was five or six years old (there, I've done and given away my age) when I had no idea of the the sources that influenced it and it still resonated with me. Resonance doesn't require that the audience necessarily be familiar with the original source material.</p><p></p><p>No, I actually agree with you. One of my consistent critiques of fantasy in recent years is that it's become somewhat hidebound and needs some shaking up. Maybe the whole "New Weird" Dark Tower and China Mieville influenced school of thought is going to accomplish that yet, but in the meantime I feel like I'm rereading the same old story over and over again.</p><p></p><p>Maybe we disagree on how desirable a state of being that is, though. Not sure.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Desdichado, post: 3867834, member: 2205"] You didn't originally put these two paragraphs together, but if you do, I think that there's a bit of a disconnect or paradox in your claims. If these themes and motifs are so ubiquitious in our culture as you claim, then no, you actually don't need to read the original source to "get" them. I can "get" the point of Frankenstein without ever reading Mary Shelley (I recommend reading it anyway; entertaining and thought-provoking book, but the fact remains that I can watch [i]The Terminator[/i] or even [i]I, Robot[/i] as shallow as that film is, and come away with most of the same themes and ideas. I've long maintained that my favorite fantasy involves a roadtrip on the big ole tourbus of the Dallas Cowboy's Cheerleaders. ?? I'm not really seeing that. I see Tatooine as a clear homage to [i]Dune[/i]. The similarity of the words jed, jeddak and Jedi seem to be coincidental, as they otherwise don't really have anything in common, the banthas don't need to be based on Barsoom since they look more like weird alien desert elephants than anything else (dewbacks as thoats, though? Hmm...) and Sith are just generic black knight type characters with a heavy layering of dark wizard, which is pretty antithetical to Barsoom. Still, while I disagree that Star Wars heavily resembles Barsoom, I do agree that it manages to get resonance. However, I first saw Star Wars (when it was new) when I was five or six years old (there, I've done and given away my age) when I had no idea of the the sources that influenced it and it still resonated with me. Resonance doesn't require that the audience necessarily be familiar with the original source material. No, I actually agree with you. One of my consistent critiques of fantasy in recent years is that it's become somewhat hidebound and needs some shaking up. Maybe the whole "New Weird" Dark Tower and China Mieville influenced school of thought is going to accomplish that yet, but in the meantime I feel like I'm rereading the same old story over and over again. Maybe we disagree on how desirable a state of being that is, though. Not sure. [/QUOTE]
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