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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8412145" data-attributes="member: 7032025">There were a lot of brilliant design ideas in 4e, actually, unfortunately the philosophy of the game and its design intent were not the ones that I was looking for and, apparently not the ones that the potential players were looking for. Note that this is not specifically disparaging for 4e, because my views is that neither was it that of 3e (and despite the fact that that edition also brought a lot of good things). All this, of course, based on the way the game went in terms of sales and public appeal.However, the design intent of 5e is actually completely opposite to that of 4e. 4e wanted to control everything by its very design, whereas 5e only aims at providing guidelines and being minimalistic so as to provide as open-ended a game as possible.This is why introducing mechanics from 4e back into 3e is in itself problematic, 5e does not want more rules, and certainly does not want control through those rules.Some examples:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bloodied: At start, I regretted the absence of bloodied in 5e, but I don't not anymore. I don't want to have to deal with that status all the time, for all creatures and in all combats, but if I want to create a mythic monster (which basically creates monsters that can be fairly different depending on their phase) for a specific combat, I can. And I did not even have to wait for MOoT to do that, multipart monsters made sense and had been developed almost from 5e inception. And I had no unforgiving set of rules that prevented me from doing this, and therefore no annoying ruleslawyer to tell me that I was violating the rules of Monster Design.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monster Design: Yes, having long list of spells can be annoying to manage IN COMBAT when you want to streamline them. But first, my NPCs are not designed to function only in combat, and having utility spells for other situations is useful. Moreover, if I want to create a monster with limited spell lists, including at will spells, this has been possible from the start of 5e. But I could have the whole range (complete lists, partial lists or simple powers) without, again having the system or a ruleslawyer tell me that I was designing my monster wrong.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skill Challenge: Yes, some people like to have them as a structure for their activities in the game, and yes, they might be a help for more inexperienced DMs in managing complex situations. But I don't need them, and I don't like how thy format what could/should be a freeform game around seeking successes rather than failures over rollplaying skill checks. I don't need that kind of control structure and, inherently, the game does not need it, people played exploration/social pillars of the game extremely well for decades without them. Again, as an option or a suggestion, they might be mentioned in the DMG, but there is no need for them being in the core.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monster/Encounter design: God, I hated 3e monster design that forced the DM to abide by player rules so that they could audit your monster, 4e simplified it because they made it around simpler concepts, but in the end, like most things in 4e, they did it by restricting the way you could design a monster. It was done with a good intention in mind, balancing the monsters and encounters. But it severely restricted the way monsters and encounters were designed in the name of balance. Again, this is fundamentally opposed to 5e design, where creative freedom is more important than rules. Yes, monster and encounter design is much more fluffy, and needs more experience, but I prefer a much more open game even if I make mistakes now and then.</li> </ul>So, for me, the good things to import are those who do not violate the design philosophy of 5e. And these are actually more additions than more control:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I would love a Warlord and Swordmage, two of my favourite classes, that I played to high levels in 4e and which gave me good times even though I felt strangled by the design of the game.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I would like to see the Nentir Vale again, perfect place to start a campaign and make it grow.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I would like many more rituals, for all classes and power types.</li> </ul></blockquote>

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