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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8412292" data-attributes="member: 7032025">OK, I think one of the reasons we do not see eye to eye is that you believe that I'm assigning an intrinsic level of quality to the editions, and promoting one over the other. I'm not really, not at all. It's just that the editions have different principles and therefore will suit better some types of games than others.This does not mean that any type of game cannot be run with any edition, especially if you start adapting the rules, for example, only that it's easier to do with some editions than with some others. And although I believe that it takes more work to do narrative play with 4e than with 5e, it does not mean that it cannot be done and cannot be enjoyed. Again, not disparaging anything here. On the other hand, if you want tactical combat (and some of the players at our table really liked it), 4e is much more suitable because with the fuzziness of 5e, it's hard to be really precise.As for freedom, you are focussing on the DM's freedom from controlling players, which is part of my argument, although I must point out that this is mostly an attitude that I saw with 3e rather than with 4e. In 4e, the rules and options were tightly controlled so there was less room for argument, and it was already a step forward in resolving the player-centricity of 3e.But when I'm speaking about freedom, I'm speaking mostly of situational freedom, of the freedom to have fluid situations that go across the three pillars. In 4e, I was unable to run a situation that started social, had a little skirmish, degenerated into a chase then went back to social. Rigid combat structure combined with an attempt at rigid skill resolution hampered me, especially at high/high level with people teleporting across a city or across the back of dragons in the astral plane. And it was not only the rigidity of combat itself, but the rigidity of the powers, which were almost all linked to combat  and working in the rigid combat environment, and linked to encounters, as well as the relative poverty of the choices, compared for example to the wealth of possible magic that any spellcaster can have, even a half-one, in addition to the power of magic items, not limited by the 4e structure.Again, it's not impossible to get that freedom, it's just that it was much harder to do it within the 4e structure than within the 5e structure. Is it a bit more clear this way ?And, coming back to this thread, this is why most of the rules structure of 4e would be, for me, inappropriate to reimport back into 5e, not that they are bad structures in and of themselves, just that I don't think that 5e needs any more structures.</blockquote>

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