Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
4E Devils vs. Demons article
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3793977" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Good question:</p><p></p><p>1) I'm frequently bothered by the 'step problem', wherein two combatants are supposedly locked in continious mortal combat but because of the fact that the game is turned based and the base steps (5' and 30') are longer than the range of weapons, one participant can step out of combat and do something unmolested while the other fiddles around waiting for his turn. This is the problem AoO's are supposed to solve, but in practice when using minatures (which I sometimes find fun and interesting), most of the time a creative player can find a way to step out of the melee and take 5 with no consequences. Readied actions in theory can counter this, but readied actions are problimatic except in narrow situations. I don't have a solution here and one is needed.</p><p>2) Many of the base classes in the game aren't generic enough - barbarian, druid, paladin, etc. - to capture all the possible variaty in the game. Multiclassing isn't a perfect option, and PrC's suck. I've cludged together some more generic base classes - fanatic, champion, shaman, explorer, etc. - from my own ideas and various sources, but I'd like to at least see some a professional takes on that, some alternate ideas, players handbooks that would actually be more useful to me/my players, etc.</p><p>3) Non-spellcasters start to suck once the big game changing spells start coming online. I've made some effort to correct that, but I'd like to see some different takes on it.</p><p>4) The base diplomacy rules are terrible. There are much better house rules out there, but even they aren't perfect. Let's at least take a swing at fixing them without adding tons and tons of new and likely arbitrary rolling that gets in the way of roleplay. Keep it simple so my players stay in character.</p><p>5) The base hide/spot rules are terrible, confusing, and highly abusable. Virtually anything would be better. I have some ideas for a really elegant system, but I've never had time to put it together.</p><p>6) The base mundane crafting rules are terrible. A few authors have made stabs and better systems, but I've not seen anything that is really well done. It's a minor point (even in gritty campaigns, not alot of crafting goes on), but its one of those things I'd like for completeness.</p><p>7) The base profession rules are terrible and very very vague. Basically, they cover all the gaps in the current skill system and yet vaguely overlap with just about every other skill in the game. Some professions almost seem like they need to be elevated up to skill descriptions. A few authors have made attempts at fixing some of the glaring problems, but there has never been a comprehensive layout. The result of this is I often want to call for profession skill checks (lawyer, boating, sailor, etc.) for skills not covered by other skills, but typically my players, seeing no obvious benefit in the rules from the profession skills, don't feel like its a good investment. So I have something of a fairness issue. What's the sense in designing challenges for skills no one could in fairness anticipated needing given how easy the rules make it to overlook.</p><p>8) The whole expected wealth level issue makes it really hard at times to design adventures the way I want to. It's created a sense of player entitlement, like PC's should always be on welfare. Players are uncomfortable not having thier 'expected wealth level', even if I balance the challenges so that at level 10 I only expect them to face CR 9 or something. Treasure can't really be hidden, because PC's _have_ to find it (or at least think that they do). Equipment can't be destroyed, because effectively this maims the character. I don't remember having this problem in 1st edition at all, probably because compared to monsters PC's were just so powerful that they didn't need the stuff as much. I hear talk from WotC of addressing this issue, but so far I'm not particularly impressed with the rumors coming out. I'm also worried because at an economic level, it makes no sense for WotC to deemphasis the loot in D&D. 'Loot' is too important to selling thier product (much the same way the PrC's have become).</p><p></p><p>I'm sure there are lots of other points I could come up with, but those are the sorts of things I expected to see addressed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3793977, member: 4937"] Good question: 1) I'm frequently bothered by the 'step problem', wherein two combatants are supposedly locked in continious mortal combat but because of the fact that the game is turned based and the base steps (5' and 30') are longer than the range of weapons, one participant can step out of combat and do something unmolested while the other fiddles around waiting for his turn. This is the problem AoO's are supposed to solve, but in practice when using minatures (which I sometimes find fun and interesting), most of the time a creative player can find a way to step out of the melee and take 5 with no consequences. Readied actions in theory can counter this, but readied actions are problimatic except in narrow situations. I don't have a solution here and one is needed. 2) Many of the base classes in the game aren't generic enough - barbarian, druid, paladin, etc. - to capture all the possible variaty in the game. Multiclassing isn't a perfect option, and PrC's suck. I've cludged together some more generic base classes - fanatic, champion, shaman, explorer, etc. - from my own ideas and various sources, but I'd like to at least see some a professional takes on that, some alternate ideas, players handbooks that would actually be more useful to me/my players, etc. 3) Non-spellcasters start to suck once the big game changing spells start coming online. I've made some effort to correct that, but I'd like to see some different takes on it. 4) The base diplomacy rules are terrible. There are much better house rules out there, but even they aren't perfect. Let's at least take a swing at fixing them without adding tons and tons of new and likely arbitrary rolling that gets in the way of roleplay. Keep it simple so my players stay in character. 5) The base hide/spot rules are terrible, confusing, and highly abusable. Virtually anything would be better. I have some ideas for a really elegant system, but I've never had time to put it together. 6) The base mundane crafting rules are terrible. A few authors have made stabs and better systems, but I've not seen anything that is really well done. It's a minor point (even in gritty campaigns, not alot of crafting goes on), but its one of those things I'd like for completeness. 7) The base profession rules are terrible and very very vague. Basically, they cover all the gaps in the current skill system and yet vaguely overlap with just about every other skill in the game. Some professions almost seem like they need to be elevated up to skill descriptions. A few authors have made attempts at fixing some of the glaring problems, but there has never been a comprehensive layout. The result of this is I often want to call for profession skill checks (lawyer, boating, sailor, etc.) for skills not covered by other skills, but typically my players, seeing no obvious benefit in the rules from the profession skills, don't feel like its a good investment. So I have something of a fairness issue. What's the sense in designing challenges for skills no one could in fairness anticipated needing given how easy the rules make it to overlook. 8) The whole expected wealth level issue makes it really hard at times to design adventures the way I want to. It's created a sense of player entitlement, like PC's should always be on welfare. Players are uncomfortable not having thier 'expected wealth level', even if I balance the challenges so that at level 10 I only expect them to face CR 9 or something. Treasure can't really be hidden, because PC's _have_ to find it (or at least think that they do). Equipment can't be destroyed, because effectively this maims the character. I don't remember having this problem in 1st edition at all, probably because compared to monsters PC's were just so powerful that they didn't need the stuff as much. I hear talk from WotC of addressing this issue, but so far I'm not particularly impressed with the rumors coming out. I'm also worried because at an economic level, it makes no sense for WotC to deemphasis the loot in D&D. 'Loot' is too important to selling thier product (much the same way the PrC's have become). I'm sure there are lots of other points I could come up with, but those are the sorts of things I expected to see addressed. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
4E Devils vs. Demons article
Top