D&D 4E 4E Devils vs. Demons article

[Reaper Steve]

Here

Yes! Yes! Yes!
Uber-freakin' ZOMG...that's what I like!

Now that I have the 1st post...
Note the references to the Elemental Tempest...which I think replaces the elemental planes...with the Abyss in the middle. I'm already liking this new alternative.

Also, Tharizdun!

It's not so much that I'm a f4nboy, but more that the 4e designers totally mined my brain when starting the design & development.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Okay, that seriously rocks.

I know it'll bother fans of the Great Wheel (although I think, at this point, it was already pretty clear the GW wasn't the 4E default), and I can understand their viewpoint. But for me, this sounds just damn cool. I like the more fundamental differences between demons and devils, I like the sound of the Astral Domains and the Elemental Tempest... It's just really evocative in a way that, for me, the Wheel hasn't been in a long time.

I do hope, though, that a project in the relatively near future (be it a Planescape project or something else) provides 4E details on the Great Wheel, as an option for those who prefer it. Given that D&D already supports multiple cosmologies (see: Eberron v. FR v. Great Wheel), I see no reason it can't continue to do so.

 

[Branduil]

I love it. Roast that sacred cow.

 

[Drowbane]

Very nice! Death to the Great Wheel!

 

[Delemental]

It looks interesting, and I like having the defined distinction between devils (scheming plotters) and demons (rampaging destroyers) as a way of helping choose which is most appropriate for an adventure. This talk of the "Elemental Tempest" is an interesting tidbit.

I imagine that this will not sit well with those DMs who have used demon lords like Grazzt in their campaigns, who is known as more of an intelligent plotter. Of course, the article gives no details on how exactly the demon princes and such will be handled (other than saying they will still exist), so it's hard to say how bad this shift will be.

Of course, DMs have the option of ignoring this change if it doesn't suit their campaign, or of converting the demon princes to devils. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Badkarmaboy]

This sounds pretty darn cool. I think the separation that's being developed between the fiends is a good thing. Also, I'm liking the description of the cosmos now. I was never fixated on the great wheel. I thought Eberron's cosmology was more interesting than the wheel, if that gives anyone an indication of how I think . Anyway, I like what I see.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I imagine that this will not sit well with those DMs who have used demon lords like Grazzt in their campaigns, who is known as more of an intelligent plotter.

Well, I didn't see anything in there to suggest that some demons couldn't be intelligent plotters. It's just that, at their core and in terms of their overall motivations, they're still ultimately more destructive than their diabolical counterparts.

 

[RPG_Tweaker]

Creepy... their purpose/nature is exactly how it is in my universe.

Time for a tinfoil hat.

 

[Pale]

Seems like more dissimilation of "my" inner planes, too.

/sigh

 

[Delemental]

One thing I noted was that demons now appear to be corrupted elemental beings. Does this mean that demons will have strong elemental connections associated with their origin? Obviously the balor already has a strong 'fire' motif - will babau start to have more of an 'earthy' feel, or vrocks an association with air?