D&D 4E 4E Devils vs. Demons article

[Masquerade]

Wow... I am impressed. Speechless, even.

If all the monsters in the MM1 are this well thought out, I wonder what changes we will see to the illithids' and giths' backgrounds.

 

[Rechan]

This also makes sense why they put the Succubus in with the Devils. She cares about corrupting mortals and snatching souls. Deceit and manipulation. Devil's bread and butter.

If she was a Demon, she'd be a fiend associated with rape, most likely.

 

[catsclaw227]

I will be very excited about demons and devils if they continue to develop out these distinctions. I loved FC1 and FC2, and I don't necessarily think that the 4e ideas will be contradictory to the ideas in those books. Though I imagine that Planescape fans may take some offense to this statement:

Only a conflict called the Blood War kept them from overrunning the material world. However, this evil-on-evil fight didn’t expand the possibilities for typical D&D play. On the contrary, the Blood War brought the motivations and hierarchy of demons and devils closer together.

I am looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

 

[blargney the second]

That's pretty cool. Me likey! I wonder what kind of devil is in that sketch.
-blarg

 

[JoelF]

I'm not crazy about this, but then I like the Great Wheel. I think that there's room for other cosmologies, but the thing I displike specifically is that the devils are prisoners. I'm assuming that Carceri doesn't exist anymore, because why is there a need for two prison planes.

Personally, if they were going to change the default planar system for 4e, I'd have prefered something more along the lines suggested in Monte Cook's Beyond Countless Doorways.

 

[Sundragon2012]

I vote for PRETTY DAMN COOL! myself.

Even though I either homebrew or play in settings like FR or Midnight, this kind of coolness makes me see core as having a bit more gravitas and makes me more inclined to actually use some of the concepts as written.....which is something I rarely, if ever, do.


Sundragon

 

[Baron Opal]

Creepy... their purpose/nature is exactly how it is in my universe.

Time for a tinfoil hat.

Indeed, that paragraph was almost word or word from the handout I give players once they investigate those creatures. I love Planescape, wrote some adventures for LC and it back in the day, but I like what this article implies.

Pass the foil.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Personally, if they were going to change the default planar system for 4e, I'd have prefered something more along the lines suggested in Monte Cook's Beyond Countless Doorways.

Well... they mentioned an "Astral Sea", right? That gives me a very "Ethereal Sea"ish vibe. Or at least a basis to integrate BCD into it very nicely.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

They had me at Tharizdun.

edit:

Most use tooth and claw rather than artificial weapons.

"Most" is not "all." Mariliths, anyone?

 

[M.L. Martin]

Elemental/terrain associations for the classic D&D demons actually exist in the old BD&D Immortals Set. They don't use the (A)D&D names, but it's pretty clear from the descriptions which is which:

"Screaming Demon (Air Demon, Winged Fury)" is the vrock.
"Croaking Demon (Swamp Demon, Gobbler)" is the hezrou.
"Howling Demon (Fire Demon, Four-Armed Horror)" is the glabrezu.
"Groaning Demon (Forest Demon, Biter)" is the nalfeshnee.
"Hissing Demon (Water Demon, Destroyer)" is the marilith.
"Roaring Demon (Mountain Demon, Manslayer)" is the balor.
"Whispering Demon (Charmer, Gray Deceiver)" is the succubus, but we know she's switched camps.

EDIT: Woah. A second look reveals a philosophical theme I've always used but never thought D&D would go for: Evil is corrupted Good. Devils are fallen angels . . . demons are corrupted elementals.