D&D General “‘Scantily Clad and Well Proportioned’: Sexism and Gender Stereotyping in the Gaming Worlds of TSR and Dungeons & Dragons.”

[Deset Gled]

It’s a matter of objecting to the idea that “sufficiently non-human” is a target we should be aiming for in the first place. It is an unattainable goal, yes, but more importantly it’s not a worthwhile goal.

I think you’d have a hard time characterizing a race as more warlike than humans, when war is a human invention. Again, you can make them less inclined towards peaceful conflict resolution, but then you’re just limiting the range of expression without getting any real benefit out of that restriction.

I would have to say that some of the things you think are difficult/impossible to conceive in speculative fiction makes me sad.

 

[abirdcall]

If characters weren't balanced by level, you'd have a point. But an elf who adventures with his human friends is too powerful to adventure with his children. Campaigns are still measured in human generations, not elven ones.

Someone above (sorry, can't remember who) the notion of an elf born on Earth in the Middle Ages could live to the millennium. Think of all the things that elf would have seen. The plague, the Renaissance, the Age of Exploration, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, the World Wars, the Space race, and the digital age. The idea of one person seeing all the history first hand is mind boggling. Even a young elf has a human lifetime worth of time to master all manner of skills and learning. The idea that a 120 year old elf and a 20 year old human have the same levels, skills and abilities should be farcical! What, did the elf sleep though class for 90 years?!?

So while an elf may live 700 years, the game does nothing with that because it would fundamentally change the nature of the world in ways that would be unplayable.

Anyway, getting off topic. Just saying the idea that any species can be more than a funny costume is aspirational, but not practical.

I think it can be explained by how characters gain levels. I see the levelling system as magical.

Characters don't have levels from their backgrounds. They gain them when they take on their class and then only gain more when they push themselves to their limits and perform great deeds.

An elf spending their time studying and making art won't be gaining levels the way an adventurer does.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't know about war, but certainly we can conceive a species who is more aggressive and confrontational than humans? And one which is less so? (Which is not to say that every member of this aggressive species needs to be more aggressive than every human, but that their baseline aggression, what is viewed as "normal," is higher.)

Sure, we can have different baselines. I’d categorize that as different emphasis for flavor, more than “alien/inhuman” though. And again, fun to play with, as long as it isn’t leading to homogeneity of characterization.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well we are dealing with imaginary races though. I can imagine a race of beings more warlike than man. Quite easily in fact . And like I said, this might not appeal to you. It isn't even my cup of tea most of the time. But I do enjoy these kinds of settings and designing worlds like this from time to time. There is a reason people find it compelling

What would “more warlike” actually look like? Particularly on the level of individual characters.

 

[abirdcall]

Well, yes, but those folks are past the point that they’re going to learn the critical analysis skills to avoid these pitfalls. The precious window of neuroplasticity has long since closed on them, and we mostly just have to learn to live in a world we have to share with them.

Hmmm...

I will need to look into this but I think our brains have a lot more neuroplasticity in adulthood than was once believed.

I take your point, but I think on a physiological level it is possible.

There is a lot of other things going on though. Most likely, strong protective parts that jump in and shut down this sort of learning when threat is perceived (whether actually there or not).

How we learn to protect ourselves as children tends to be how we do so in adulthood and it takes a lot of work to sort out what is actually healthy ways of managing stress.

 

[MGibster]

I come back to a thread about scantily clad and well proportioned women in RPGs and now it's all orcs all the time.

 

[Bedrockgames]

What would “more warlike” actually look like? Particularly on the level of individual characters.

Warlike is more about society. So I think that aspect is more pertinent to orcs as a group. But if we take it to mean a greater propensity for violence. I think it could look like a number of things. But on individual character level it might mean they rely heavily on violence for things human character or even characters would deal with through discussion or negotiation. It could mean don't ever piss them off. It could mean they mostly prefer to use force to solve problems the party faces. They might regularly be given to behavior that only the most extreme humans are given to. It depends. But you would have to sculpt it and play it. I honestly don' think it is that difficult to imagine though

 

[Bedrockgames]

I come back to a thread about scantily clad and well proportioned women in RPGs and now it's all orcs all the time.

we could start talking about scantily clad orcs if you want

 

[Charlaquin]

It would mean human history but with even more war and destruction. I mean I get that humans are warlike. I've read a lot of history. But humans also built institutions, civilization, developed sciences, trade, arts etc. I can imagine fictional beings who are more devoted to war and violence than humans

“Even more war and destruction” isn’t something beyond human capacity. So it sounds like you are indeed suggesting a restriction on the potential range of characterization - precluding the possibility of institutions, settled living, scientific rigor, trade, and art. As opposed to expansion of that potential range - having them behave in new ways humans do not.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I come back to a thread about scantily clad and well proportioned women in RPGs and now it's all orcs all the time.

Orcs are actually a safer topic maybe?