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4E Devils vs. Demons article
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<blockquote data-quote="Merlin the Tuna" data-source="post: 3794449" data-attributes="member: 55638"><p>I missed the part where they identify law and chaos. Seriously, Ctrl+F "Law" = not found. Ctrl+F "Chaos" = not found.</p><p></p><p>I have to say, I really enjoy that we have a few core ideas built into the fiends at this point. Much of the previous fluff seems to follow the path of saying "Okay, Devils are Lawful and Demons are Chaotic. What does that mean?" and drawing from there. But because Law and Chaos are perhaps the most frequently disagreed-upon concepts in D&D, this got dragged in every direction and ultimately made as little sense as most of the alignments. On the other hand, rebooting with clear ideas in mind means that we <em>can</em> look at the books and say "Oh, Devils do this and this and this, and Demons do that and that and that. I guess I'll call the Devils Lawful and the Demons Chaotic." The thought process appears to have been reversed, and this pleases me.</p><p></p><p>That <strong>negative reactions</strong> have been so varied kind of points to this. While, looking at threads, there appears to be a glut of support for this, the other side of the fence has people saying both "This is seriously exactly the same as it always has been," as well as others yelling "THIS IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND MY WORLD IS RUINED." It highlights just how ill-defined the issue is. K has a nice writeup on some of the interpretations <a href="http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=9285340&postcount=2" target="_blank">here</a>, in his Tome of Fiends compilation. It's a similar issue to the one that plagues negative energy -- <a href="http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=12434287&postcount=14" target="_blank">here's</a> a tidbit on that as well.</p><p></p><p>On a more directly-relevant-to-the-article note, I enjoy the idea of Devils uprising against their God and getting exactly what they wanted but at a cost which frustrates them to no end. It forms a nice parallel with Devils offering mortals contracts which then come back to bite them in the end. While the Fiendish Codex series may or may not have included this very idea, there certainly wasn't anything in the MM or DMG that made me say "Y'know what, these planes sound fun; I should buy some supplements about them." As a result, I don't give two craps about the FCs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Merlin the Tuna, post: 3794449, member: 55638"] I missed the part where they identify law and chaos. Seriously, Ctrl+F "Law" = not found. Ctrl+F "Chaos" = not found. I have to say, I really enjoy that we have a few core ideas built into the fiends at this point. Much of the previous fluff seems to follow the path of saying "Okay, Devils are Lawful and Demons are Chaotic. What does that mean?" and drawing from there. But because Law and Chaos are perhaps the most frequently disagreed-upon concepts in D&D, this got dragged in every direction and ultimately made as little sense as most of the alignments. On the other hand, rebooting with clear ideas in mind means that we [i]can[/i] look at the books and say "Oh, Devils do this and this and this, and Demons do that and that and that. I guess I'll call the Devils Lawful and the Demons Chaotic." The thought process appears to have been reversed, and this pleases me. That [b]negative reactions[/b] have been so varied kind of points to this. While, looking at threads, there appears to be a glut of support for this, the other side of the fence has people saying both "This is seriously exactly the same as it always has been," as well as others yelling "THIS IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND MY WORLD IS RUINED." It highlights just how ill-defined the issue is. K has a nice writeup on some of the interpretations [url=http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=9285340&postcount=2]here[/url], in his Tome of Fiends compilation. It's a similar issue to the one that plagues negative energy -- [url=http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=12434287&postcount=14]here's[/url] a tidbit on that as well. On a more directly-relevant-to-the-article note, I enjoy the idea of Devils uprising against their God and getting exactly what they wanted but at a cost which frustrates them to no end. It forms a nice parallel with Devils offering mortals contracts which then come back to bite them in the end. While the Fiendish Codex series may or may not have included this very idea, there certainly wasn't anything in the MM or DMG that made me say "Y'know what, these planes sound fun; I should buy some supplements about them." As a result, I don't give two craps about the FCs. [/QUOTE]
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